"None Of This is True" by Lisa Jewell

In this episode, Nikki and Kelly discuss the book "None of This is True" by Lisa Jewell. They talk about the format of the book, the complex characters, and the twists and turns of the plot. They delve into the themes of obsession, manipulation, and the blurred lines between truth and lies. They also discuss the dynamics of Josie and Walter's relationship, the impact of trauma on the characters, the role of mental illness, the upcoming Netflix adaptation, whether this book could ever have a sequel, and the ambiguity surrounding certain events- especially those at the end of the book.
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Missed our episode on Lisa Jewell's "The Family Upstairs"? Check it out on Spotify here or on Apple Podcasts here!
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Transcript

Nikki (00:12)
Hey everybody, welcome to BYOB, the Bring Your Own Book podcast. I'm Nikki. And this week we are going to be talking about none other than None of This is True by Lisa Jewell. And I am so excited. We all know I love Lisa Jewell. We did The Family Upstairs last season or the season before. I don't know who can keep track of time now, but I'm so happy that we are doing this now because...

Kelly (00:16)
And I'm Kelly.

Who knows? Yeah.

Nikki (00:42)
I just love any chance I get to talk about her. Before we get into all of our feelings and everything like that, Kelly is going to read the synopsis for us.

Kelly (00:52)
Celebrating her 45th birthday at the hot new local pub, popular podcaster Alix Summer crosses paths with an unassuming woman called Josie Fair. Josie, it turns out, is also celebrating her 45th birthday. They are in fact birthday twins. A few days later, Alix and Josie bump into each other again, this time outside Alix's children's school. Josie has been listening to Alix's podcasts and thinks she might be an interesting subject for her series.

She is, she tells Alix, on the cusp of great changes in her life. Josie's life appears to be strange and complicated. And although Alix finds her unsettling, she can't quite resist the temptation to keep going on the project. Slowly, she starts to realize that Josie is hiding some very dark secrets. And before she knows it, Josie has inveigled her way into Alix's life and into her home. I think that's how you say that word. But as quickly as she had arrived, Josie Fair disappears.

Only then does Alix discover that Josie has left a terrible and terrifying legacy in her wake and that Alix has become the subject of her own true crime podcast with her life and her family's lives in grave danger.

Yikes. Seriously.

Nikki (02:06)
Yeah, double yikes. I mean, I feel like this is going to be kind of a hard book for us to talk about in a super coherent way. If you haven't read the book, you might want to before you listen and watch this because there's just so much stuff.

Kelly (02:28)
And it's we're going to be talking spoilers like if you've watched or listened to us at all before this, you know, we're going to spill the tea. So as this is a thriller. No, this isn't in order anyway, this book, the way it's written, it's like all over the place, which I loved. So. Yeah.

Nikki (02:36)
And we're going to do it not in order because...

Yeah, I really like the format of having the present day of what's going on. That is in chronological order, but then you also have Netflix series, I'm Your Birthday Twin, and those excerpts of the manuscript where it's describing what's happening in the show. And yeah, you really...

Kelly (02:58)
Mm -hmm.

Yep.

Nikki (03:14)
she picks the most opportune moments to drop certain things. I don't ever feel like I really knew what was happening from those excerpts before they showed it to us in the present timeline or anything like that. It was very well done.

Kelly (03:28)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, even like the prologue. I so I read this like months ago. So I had to flip through before we recorded to be like, okay, what happened? Because all I know is that I love this book. It's been a hot sec. But the prologue I was like, yeah, because for me, when I read the prologue, I was like, what is going on? This is kind of weird. And then I forgot about it by the time that came up again.

So when it happened like in real time, I was like, shit, don't go, don't do it, don't do it, you know, like, which was so good. Cause sometimes it's not like that. And sometimes you're like, obviously this is what happened and blah, blah. Lisa Jewel is just so good. Like from the beginning, I had no clue and I totally forgot about it until I was, it was too late, you know? Yeah.

Nikki (04:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, I like honestly, I finished this book like last week and I don't even really remember like what the prologue was.

Kelly (04:27)
So it's Alix's husband coming out of a hotel like disoriented and there's a woman following him kind of and he's like, what is she doing there? And then he sees a car pull up and he's like, thank God she's here. And there's a woman in the car. We don't know who, but he says, you're not my wife. And she's like, no, no, she told me to come pick you up. I see that you're drunk. I have water and coffee here. Come on in. It's all good. And he's like, I thought you left.

And she said, well, I did, but she needed me. So he gets in the car and she tells him to drink up and that's it.

Nikki (05:03)
That's hilarious. Even by the time I got to that scene in the book, I didn't remember that prologue.

Kelly (05:09)
Yes, see?

Nikki (05:11)
Like, I didn't remember that at all.

Kelly (05:13)
because there was so much being dropped in this book that I was like, I was constantly on edge. She is so good at just planting those seeds and making you feel so uncomfortable from the beginning. Like.

Nikki (05:18)
Yeah.

I know. And obviously the book is called None of This is True, so you can get an inkling of maybe Josie is not fully honest when she is divulging her story to Alix. But I was still surprised at some things. The way that they set up Walter's relationship with his daughter, Erin,

Kelly (05:48)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Yeah.

Nikki (05:56)
It really lent to what Josie was saying and her accusations that he was sexually assaulting her because he got with her when she was like 14 and or 15 and he was 42. So that leads me to believe you've you've done it once and you can obviously do it again.

Kelly (06:14)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, Walter was so disgusting. Like so many of these characters in Josie's life were just abhorrent. And there were several times and I'm gonna bring up I won't name the person because like I don't really know them and it doesn't matter. But this person I follow on Goodreads, she she was like, I really didn't.

like the pedo -apologist angle this book kind of had. And I was like, what? That's not what I got at all. Like there's messed up people in the world and there's messed up characters for sure in this book. And what happens is Alix is going to talk to, or she goes to talk to Josie's mom, Pat. And Pat kind of goes like, well, you know, they got together.

when she they got married when she was 18 he was 45 what does that say about them and then she's like well i don't know and Pat says something like i think they're both bad people and they deserve each other kind of thing like along those lines and so it's like even Josie's own mom is like kind of making excuses as to how they got together even though she was a minor you know like

Nikki (07:44)
I think more like what she said because so Pat and Walter were dating. That's important. Her and Walter were in a romantic relationship and Josie essentially took him from her mom. And what Pat says is Josie can't stand to have anything that isn't hers around.

Kelly (07:51)
Yes. Yeah.

Mm.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (08:10)
So she hated Walter in the beginning, like she hated all of Pat's other boyfriends, and then she started to change. And she started to like kind of claw into him, and then he started to pay more attention to her because she was wearing really skimpy outfits around and she would sit really close to him on the couch and stuff. And I'm not saying that none of this is his fault because obviously that he went for it.

Kelly (08:19)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's the adult. Yeah.

Nikki (08:40)
But also, when I was 16, if I was doing that to somebody, I was doing it because I knew what I was doing. That doesn't mean that there's not something wrong with her, but you don't just go, I'm going to wear a really short skirt and like push my boobs up in this guy's face because you don't. She's doing it intentionally. And so. I don't know, I don't think that it was like.

Kelly (08:48)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

yeah, but like...

Nikki (09:09)
a pedo -apologist angle. I think it was just like, that happened. But he loved his daughters and there was nothing untoward happening with them, at least from what they said.

Kelly (09:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, like I think people are messy. And so like, the fact that

Like what you're saying, you know, of like she was actively pursuing him, which yeah, but like her mom, terrible mother, you know, Walter, ick. Even if she's doing all these things, it's the adult's jobs, right? To be like, nope, not okay. Or like not going to do that. Cause she's still like a child, right? So I didn't read the book and be like, they're clearly like, they're okay with Walter being with her. I'm like,

Nikki (09:47)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kelly (10:04)
When was that ever a thing? Alix was like, hello, you know, Alix was like wanting to shout from the rooftops, like, this is bad. This is wrong. Are you okay? You know? So I just thought that was so interesting to like, obviously people have different opinions and you can read a book and get different things from it. But I'm like, what? That's what we got from it? That's not what I got from it. Like, no, it's very weird.

Nikki (10:05)
Yeah. Yeah.

No. And even if there was some kind of like, apologist thing, I don't think that that's like an angle that Lisa Jewel would take in her real life. So there are definitely situations where people have been okay or are brainwashed to be okay with certain things that are not okay. And if that was the route that she was going to take, then that's a valid route.

Kelly (10:40)
No.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (10:54)
take if it's going to put the storyline forward. I don't know. Like...

Kelly (10:57)
Yeah, like she writes psychological thrillers. You can't have the world be hunky dory, rose tinted glasses, and then shit happens. I mean, like, well, you could, but that's not as interesting because it doesn't make sense. Like, this is, this is a character study in obsession, in comparison, in, you know, just all these things that if you read the book.

Nikki (11:19)
Yeah, well also she has a main character who is seriously mentally ill and for her to be believed in her story that she's telling Alix, even though it's lies, there has to be things happening around her that can look like that stuff is true. So if she says, my husband is

Kelly (11:28)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (11:48)
a pedophile and he's molesting my daughter, it's a lot easier to just jump on board and believe that if he got with her when she was 14. And it's a lot easier to believe that if he does actually get out of bed every night and go to his daughter's room. And it's a lot easier to believe that if his other daughter left the house and it could have been because of him or whatever. So you have to set that stuff up.

Kelly (11:58)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (12:18)
If it was just like, yeah, none of that was true and he was actually just a great husband, everybody would have been like, womp, womp, what is this book? You need the twist.

Kelly (12:28)
Yeah, and there were many a twist in here. Like starting at the very beginning, the birthday twin thing, at first I was like, okay, like what's gonna happen out of this? You know, like when I read the synopsis before I bought the book, I thought, hmm, okay, like about the birthday thing. And then as like, you get more into it, you're like, okay, shit's gonna go down. Obviously it's Lisa Jewell. So I was like, let's do it.

Nikki (12:33)
Yaa!

Kelly (12:55)
I bought it because she was a podcaster. I thought this will be fun, you know? And it was fun, but it was scary and it was creepy. But at the very beginning, Josie and her husband, Walter, go to a restaurant they wouldn't normally go to. And she spots her across the room and she's like, I wonder how old she's turning. And then she discovers, you know, they have the same age. They talk in the bathroom. They were born at the same hospital, like all this stuff. And...

I mean, clearly Alix and I are very different people, but that's where I would have ended it. I would have been like, cool, bye. But like the way Josie just kind of like edges in into her life from the very beginning is so sketchy, but also so sad. Like, did you feel?

Nikki (13:43)
and real.

I mean, we all know people that like, you might just like feel bad for them. So you let them talk a little longer than you want them to or whatever. You just don't expect them to be psychos. Usually. But I mean, if she like, so that's where Alix does want to leave it. She wants to leave it at that conversation.

Kelly (13:56)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (14:13)
And then Josie creeps her on Facebook and finds out what school her kids go to, which is the same school that her children went to when they were younger. And she proceeds to go to the school. Like she's just walking her dog and reminiscing. And she's like, I really have something I'd like to talk to you about. Are you free this time?

Kelly (14:18)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Little meat cube.

Nikki (14:38)
And she basically asks Alix so many times that she's free that Alix eventually has to tell her that she is free at one of the times because you can't just be perpetually busy. And so they meet again and Alix is like, who is this fucking woman?

Kelly (14:49)
Yeah. God.

Yeah. Like I, I, I feel like I would totally fall into this trap because I'm always like, I don't want to be rude. You know, that's the thing. I don't want to be rude, but if Alix had just been a little ruder, you know, we wouldn't have this book. I know it's not real, but like, it is so scary. It's so scary. I'm like,

Nikki (15:11)
Yeah.

Yep.

Kelly (15:28)
Okay, I think for me, one of the creepiest parts, because there were a lot, but one of the creepiest parts was how she like, ended up staying with them for over a week. And she wouldn't leave. And she was

Nikki (15:42)
Yeah.

It was like from a Friday to a Saturday. And that's the Saturday that like everything went down.

Kelly (15:51)
Yes. Yeah. Like she was wearing her clothes. She was wearing her perfume. Throughout the book, she's like stealing little trinkets and trophies, if you will, of Alix's life, like some of her mail, like a magazine that she gets and like a bracelet and all these things. And

Nikki (16:09)
her son's passport photos, drawing her daughter drew that was on a bulletin board in their kitchen. Yeah.

Kelly (16:16)
Yeah. I and also like one part I did okay, there were some funny moments, but they were funny, but also like, my god, like the call is coming from inside the house, you know, like, like, when Nathan, Alix's husband, who is going through some tough times, like he has an alcohol addiction problem. And he so Alix.

Nikki (16:30)
Yeah.

Kelly (16:45)
has Josie and Walter over for dinner because Josie's like, we should have dinner. Maybe Walter will talk to you if we have dinner and your husband's there because he's a man's man, like all this stuff. And Alix is like, okay. And Nathan doesn't show up, right? Cause he's like out on a bender and all this stuff. And he comes in the next day when Josie had slept over and he's like, he sees her face cause she like got into an altercation with Walter, she says.

And he's like, my God, what happened? And she tells him like, my husband did this. And then she's like, it's all your fault because you didn't show up to dinner. And Nathan's like, what? And she's like, he was so mad you didn't show up. And Nathan's just kind of like Nathan's one of the few people who doesn't like buy into her shit. He's like, I don't like her. Like whatever. But I just thought it was so funny how she was like, well,

You know, it's almost as bad as having a husband who doesn't show up to dinner because he's out with his friends or whatever. And he's like, like, who is this crazy lady in my home? Like, can you imagine if I was at your house and Bryce shows up late something and I'm like, yeah, well, at least my husband's not a piece of shit. Like what?

Nikki (17:47)
Yeah.

He might have beat the shit out of me, but at least he came to dinner. Like, what an argument.

Kelly (18:02)
God, like, right? He's just like fucking crazy bitch.

Nikki (18:10)
Yeah. Yeah, so that night, like Kelly said, Josie and Walter go over. Alix is waiting for Nathan. She keeps calling him. He's not calling her back. They have dinner. It's really awkward. And Josie's like, well, maybe we should go. And Alix is like, Yeah, sorry, but you should go. And they leave and walk back to their flat. And then, yes, apparently,

Kelly (18:11)
I can't. Ugh.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (18:41)
from what Josie says, Walter attacked her and all of this stuff. She shows back up at Alix's house at three o 'clock in the morning with her face all bruised. She has a laceration on the back of her head and Alix is nice because how do you turn somebody away from your house that just allegedly got beaten by their husband?

Kelly (18:56)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki (19:08)
And she gently tries to like prod her to leave all week. Like, so what are you going to do? Where are you going to go? What's your plan? And, and stuff. And she's like, my sister's coming to stay on Saturday night. And she goes, well then I can stay until Saturday. And I was like, whoa, okay. Like, let's be.

Kelly (19:12)
Mm -hmm.

Right? And she keeps like offering to get her help like through a women's shelter. She's like, I know a woman who works there, we can call the police. And she's like, no, like, we can call your mom. No, like everything is like, no, no, no, no, no.

Nikki (19:37)
Yep.

Kelly (19:39)
I could not like, it's just so cringey. It was so cringey and I was always so scared and like she takes her dog out to go to the bathroom after he has an accident. And then she's like, my God, I left her alone at home with my son. I'm like, yeah, hello. Like you have kids. I don't like people just showing up. I know it was an extreme case, but like,

Nikki (19:43)
I know.

Yep. I know.

And also it's like someone you don't know too. Like if someone you knew showed up at your door like that, you'd be like, my God.

Kelly (20:09)
my God.

Yes.

Yeah, well like I only know that you like to wear denim, you have a weird relationship, you hide a lot of secrets, people, your husband said that you like to control things and not to believe you.

I just...

Nikki (20:34)
Yep.

And for the kicker of it all, they find Walter dead in the bathtub and her daughter tied up to a child's chair in a closet that she had been in for the week. So that Friday night, she attacked Walter. She screamed horrible things at him. Like true, but not true. Like it was like, there was a lot of feelings happening.

Kelly (20:58)
Yup.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki (21:05)
and he has a heart attack while she's attacking him and he dies and she puts him in the bathtub. I don't know why I pictured him, this is gonna sound so sad, not sad, bad, I don't know, I pictured him as like Bill Nighy.

Kelly (21:10)
Yeah.

Okay.

Why are you gonna do that to Bill? Christmas is all around us.

Nikki (21:31)
I know, but like that's... I know, but that's like, I don't know, the like tall gangly, like older man, like who could have been like cute when he was younger and stuff like that. Anyway. And Aaron survived that whole week by sucking on mop strings that were wet from like a dirty...

Kelly (21:41)
really?

Well, that's not how I pictured him. Okay.

Yeah.

Nikki (22:01)
Mott bucket. I mean, you got to do what you got to do and props to her for like...

doing it. I don't know if she got put into a medically induced coma or if she fell into a coma after just from like all of the stress on her body, but she does survive. And you get to meet her sister. Party.

Kelly (22:08)
Ugh.

Ugh, yeah. Yeah.

Thank God, yeah, I was like, God.

Nikki (22:28)
Yeah.

I know, like that whole, the whole other plot line that was introduced with her sister Roxy who left and really Josie told Alix that Roxy left because her friend Brooke slept with Walter. But that's not what happened. Brooke...

Kelly (22:54)
Yes. Yeah.

Nikki (22:59)
and Roxy were in a relationship together and so Brooke or my god there's just too many names Roxy thought that Brooke said something derogatory about her sister Erin who has autism spectrum disorder and that's why she only eats the baby food it's a coping mechanism

Kelly (23:22)
I thought she had... something else.

Nikki (23:25)
ASD.

Kelly (23:27)
I thought she had global developmental disorder. Or maybe later we find out in the book.

Nikki (23:35)
the end it just says she has ASD and eating the baby food was a coping mechanism that she developed because of all of the trauma that was happening in her home. But so she hits Brooke and then they kind of like mend that and Brooke's like I want to leave or I want to go to prom and Roxy's like well I want to leave and there's this altercation in their home where

Kelly (23:38)
Ohhhh

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Continue.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (24:06)
It's kind of like unclear what happens because we see a little snippet at the end from Josie where she's thinking back on the memory in a totally different way. So we see from Roxy's perspective that Josie killed Brooke and disposed of her body in the car in the... I don't remember what they call it.

Kelly (24:10)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (24:34)
There's basically like an alley with a bunch of garages behind the flats. But the way that Josie thinks back on it in the epilogue is that Brooke and Roxy have an altercation in the kitchen and Roxy kills Brooke by accident. And then the whole family has to get rid of her body. So then you're just left after the book with all of these

Kelly (24:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (25:04)
thoughts, like we know that she was obviously lying about some things, but the sisters are going to protect each other after all of this stuff, like their dad's gone and they have a very tumultuous and like non -relationship with their mother. So it would make sense if they covered it up. And I'm just like, I don't know.

Kelly (25:11)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

I don't know like

I don't know. I want to believe that it was Josie because even earlier she tries to paint Roxy as having like an anger issue and an anger problem but like I don't know like is that true? We don't know. It's and she's we already know Josie can like change on a dime so I'm like I just find it hard to believe that Roxy would

kill the girl that she wanted to be with, even if it was an accident? Like, I don't know. I feel like Josie.

Nikki (26:07)
Well, I think Roxy does say that she was rough as a kid. They do dispel the rumor that she broke Erin's arm on purpose. It was an accident, but she still did it. And the thing that makes me think the epilogue is real from Josie is you never see her flashback to a memory and remember it wrong. She's always telling people facts that are not true.

Kelly (26:14)
Mm.

Mm.

Mm. Yeah.

Nikki (26:36)
She's not remembering things in a way that's not true. So I'm like, I think she, I think that she is telling the truth at that point, but then it makes you think back and you're kind of trying to dispel what the daughters have said up to this point. Because who knows now.

Kelly (26:40)
Yeah.

Mmm.

We got to learn how to talk to dogs. We got to talk to... Yeah, I'd be like, what did you see while you were there? Honestly.

Nikki (27:06)
Fred.

So many things.

Kelly (27:14)
Okay, I, okay, sorry, I have a question. When I was reading this book, did you ever feel like I felt I was so scared that Erin was not gonna exist. I thought it was gonna be like a Norman Bates psycho situation where like she had been dead for ages and she was just like talking to herself in Erin's room or like just putting food there and no one was eating it. Cause it, everyone, they kept saying like it smells in there, it smells, you know, like.

Nikki (27:18)
Yeah.

Kelly (27:43)
And I was like, my God, is she alive? Like, is she just talking to her skeleton? Like, did you have that thought? Was it just me? God. I was so scared the whole time.

Nikki (27:43)
Yeah.

No. I didn't have that thought. I'm wondering why I didn't now that you say that.

The whole time though, I was wondering what is the bad smell though? You know, if you are in a room for a really long time and like the windows aren't open, it gets very stagnant and there's just body smells and things like that. And I guess if you're eating a lot in the room, there's all of that smell. So I was just like, what is the bad, can you explain what the bad smell?

Kelly (28:16)
stale.

Nikki (28:32)
smells like? And I can't believe she said I hadn't seen her for a year and a half. I think that's how long she said it was or maybe no yeah I think it was a year and a half half Alex Alix like a few weeks, a few months, and Josie's like a year and a half. It's been a year and a half since I've set eyes on my daughter. She only goes to the bathroom, well it's probably

Kelly (28:34)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (29:01)
piss and stuff that she can smell because there's no way that you are only you're holding it all day to go to the bathroom at night when your mom's not home. Or I guess when she's at work she could go. But there has to be like jugs of pee in there. But you think that Walter, if Walter's going in there every night to like live stream with her, that he would be helping her to take care of that. So.

Kelly (29:09)
No.

Ugh, God.

Yeah.

Nikki (29:31)
Was that a lie? I kind of don't think it was, like, when they're talking about, like, the real things that she's doing and leaving the food out, but I don't know.

Kelly (29:38)
Mm -hmm.

I don't know. Well, and when when she shows up to Alix's house after the altercation being like, I can't go home, whatever. And Alix asks her, like, what about Erin? She's like, she's at a friend's house. That also made me believe, OK, she's dead. She's dead. She's not in the room. Like, yeah. Right.

Nikki (30:00)
Well I thought she was dead then.

Not like Norman Bates, but I definitely thought she whacked her on that Friday night.

Kelly (30:11)
I really did think of like she's she's gone and even like I Don't know even like some of the snippets we got with her and Walter Walter's like you're crazy or like he calls her weird But not like he's like I would never say you're weird and she like, you know

Nikki (30:24)
Yeah.

Yeah. It's like you're saying it to me right now.

Kelly (30:33)
I don't know. know. don't know. I, well, okay, part of the reason why I was like, we should do this book because, A, we had both read it and we love Lisa Jewell. So I'm like, duh, but they just announced they're making a Netflix movie out of it. Yeah. So I'm curious, do you have any like thoughts on who you would want the two women to be? Like,

Nikki (30:50)
nice.

Kelly (31:03)
Yeah. Who would you want to be? Josie and Alix, if anyone.

Nikki (31:08)
You know, I kind of would like the cast to all be people, I don't know. Even though I did, okay, Walter, I didn't have any thoughts about what the women looked like, but Walter was Bill Nighy and Nathan was Alexander Skarsgard. Like that kind of hot, like big little lies feeling of him, because like all the suits and stuff, but.

Kelly (31:13)
Mm -hmm, that's fair.

No.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Nikki (31:38)
Yeah, no, I think like with thrillers and stuff, I like it to be people that I don't know because it lends into the belief that it's actually happening more than if there's like these big names in there. I'm like, you're acting. I know you're acting. What about you?

Kelly (31:47)
Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm on to you.

No, I feel like people I would have picked, I feel like maybe they're too old now, which sucks, but it is about two 45 year old women. So you could go older anyway. So I thought maybe like,

Nikki (32:05)
Mmm.

Kelly (32:17)
Julianne Moore would be kind of like weird, but also fun like to do Alix maybe Or even No offense Julianne, I think she's too old though. That's the thing Everyone I'm thinking of I'm like, you're probably too old now

Nikki (32:23)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, like they're like, they'd be more like mid 50s playing.

Kelly (32:39)
Yeah, yeah. So I don't know, like, I did like Emily Blunt in Girl on the Train. She was like the only thing I liked about that movie, even though I loved the book. But I don't want her in it. Yeah, I read that. Yeah, I read that years and years ago. I wonder if I'd like it now, but I did like it at the time. So I don't know, but maybe someone like.

Nikki (32:48)
Yeah.

I think I liked that book, but I can't remember. It's been so long.

Hmm.

I like that.

Kelly (33:08)
Who's even in that age range? I don't know.

Nikki (33:11)
That girl who looks like Demi Moore but definitely isn't. That like, I don't know her name, but she just looks like whenever she gets cast, I think they wanted Demi Moore, but they didn't have the budget. I think she would be really good. what the fuck is she in?

Kelly (33:33)
I feel like I used to be so keyed in to Hollywood and movies and actors now I'm like who the hell is even around who's that age? my god! no.

Nikki (33:44)
This girl... See? She looks just like Debbie Moore.

Kelly (33:50)
Jennifer Connelly. That's what I said, yeah.

Nikki (33:52)
Sure.

Kelly (33:57)
She could be good. Yeah.

Nikki (33:59)
I just picture Alix having like darker long straight hair. Yeah, I don't know how she was described, but I didn't care. I was like, this is Alix.

Kelly (34:04)
really? Okay, I pictured...

I don't remember how she would describe it, but I had a teacher who was named Alix with an I, I X, and she was Greek. And so I pictured her kind of like long curly brown hair, just this mane of power. That's what I pictured. So, but I don't think, I mean, she could play her, but I don't know, Alix, if you want to, that's what you want, but who would be Josie? Josie, I feel like.

Nikki (34:26)
Yeah. nice.

Kelly (34:43)
I want to say Emma Stone, but I'm also like kind of tired of Emma Stone. Sorry. Sorry everyone, but.

Nikki (34:47)
Me too.

That like deep kind of almost lisp, but that's not a lisp. And I'm like...

Kelly (34:56)
I'm just...

Nikki (34:58)
I don't know, there's something about her voice that is like, it's just very specific and it's really grating now to me. Like, she's just Emma Stone playing a character in all of her movies because she can't change her voice to be not that. And it's just very distinctive as her. It's kind of like Tom Cruise. Like, Tom Cruise is just playing himself in movies. That's how I feel about Emma Stone.

Kelly (35:04)
Yeah.

Yessss

Mmm.

Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah, I get that. That's what I feel about George Clooney. Like, I don't think he's a bad actor, but whenever someone's like, my God, George Clooney, I'm like, okay, like you seen one, you seen them all. But like someone like that could be, what about Jennifer Garner as Alix? I love her. That could be fun. And then maybe like,

Nikki (35:36)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Kelly (35:54)
no, she's too old now. Christina Applegate would have been really fun as Josie because she's good at playing, you know, someone with edge.

Nikki (36:01)
Yeah.

Yeah. Josie too, she's like such an enigma. Like whenever I try to picture her, like I see like hair but her face is just kind of like blurred out. Like I'm not seeing anything real, but they do say like she's... she was... she's pretty, but the way that she like dresses and like does herself up makes her look really...

Kelly (36:10)
Yes.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Not. Yeah.

Nikki (36:34)
unappealing. Which I mean, it's Hollywood, they could do that to anybody. And I hope they do, because sometimes they like to make everybody pretty. And I'm just like, no.

Kelly (36:42)
Yeah.

Yes.

my God. I remember years and years ago watching Oprah when they were doing, the whole episode was on the movie Precious based on the novel Push by Sapphire. Every time they said Precious, they had to go, based on the novel Push by Sapphire. I'm like, okay, we get it. Like whatever. But anyways, like good for you.

Nikki (37:06)
is that the one about the like young Black woman who has a baby or she has several babies or I never watched the movie and I didn't read the book.

Kelly (37:17)
Yes, it's a I didn't read the book. The movie was really intense. Like. Yeah, it was really intense. I think it was well done, like from what I remember, but it was intense. But Mariah Carey played her social worker in the movie and Oprah was like, what was it like to go on screen just like fully undone, no makeup? And I'm like, my God, like, give me a break. Like, that's what we're going to talk about.

Nikki (37:23)
Yeah, that's why I didn't watch it.

Yeah.

you

Mariah Carey, she's like beautiful, especially back then. She was a lot younger.

Kelly (37:49)
Yeah, like, my God, I'm like, wow, good for you. Like I'm wearing makeup today because I was like, people are going to see me. But like normally, you know, it's like nothing. And even if you wear makeup, that's fine. But I'm like, why are we talking about this on Oprah of like, good for you. You're so brave. Like, give me a break, you know? So we'll see what they do with this. I think this would be a well.

Nikki (38:00)
Yeah.

I know.

Yeah.

Kelly (38:19)
I am curious how they will make it into a movie just because the writing style, like we said earlier, is like, it's so... it's choppy, but it's not, you know? Like it's a lot of vignettes. So how do they do that for the screen while keeping the pace, you know? I don't know.

Nikki (38:31)
Mm -hmm.

I think it would work better as a series, like a limited series than a movie. I think that they can do it. I think they just have to film it like how they film documentaries. You know how like the person gets in the chair and it's like really quiet and they're like, okay, I'm ready. And then you like see those little parts, but then you're watching them in between, like perfect. Yeah.

Kelly (38:41)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

my God!

Yeah. That would be really cool. Yeah. Ooh, that's a good idea. Netflix, hello. Hello.

Nikki (39:09)
Give me money. Yeah, I do too. I have to say this was my 10th Lisa Jewell book that I read. And now I'm at 11 because I read The Night She Disappeared, literally right after I started it.

Kelly (39:12)
I think that would be great, yeah. wait.

my god.

my God. And where does this fall among the 11?

Nikki (39:33)
You know, I because it's I've read them over like quite a few years, like five years probably. I think it does land in the top five. Yeah, she has some that I've read that were not mystery thrillers, like The Making of Us wasn't a mystery thriller. It was like

Kelly (39:42)
Mm.

that's cool. Yeah.

Mm.

Nikki (39:59)
little bit of a mystery but it was about like donor children finding each other and then finding their donor father, which it was nice but it wasn't like one of my faves. So I do tend to gravitate more towards these ones of hers and yeah so I think it is top five. I read it really fast. The one I read after the night she disappeared, that one was like

Kelly (40:05)
okay.

Hmm.

Nikki (40:28)
Top 3 for sure. That was great.

Kelly (40:31)
Is that, then she was gone?

Nikki (40:35)
No. The night she disappeared is different.

Kelly (40:37)
no, I know. I'm just saying, which one did you read after?

Nikki (40:44)
after what.

Kelly (40:44)
You said the - didn't you say the one you read after the night she disappeared was type top three?

Nikki (40:49)
No, the one I read after, comma, the night she disappeared.

Kelly (40:55)
I was like, great, what is it?

Nikki (40:56)
No, that is it, the night she disappeared. And that was her COVID book that she wrote. And my freaking God, Kelly, I also have that one and I didn't know. But it was crazy. There was three different timelines going on that kind of converge. And it's like this...

Kelly (41:00)
Okay.

okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Nikki (41:26)
A teacher and his wife move to the country and she's a mystery, like a cozy mystery writer, and she finds a sign in their back garden pointing down at the ground and it says, dig here.

Kelly (41:32)
Okay.

Nikki (41:40)
And she does, and it leads her into this whole thing, and then you're seeing the timeline leading up to the night of the disappearance. And then the person who disappeared's family, and then the mystery writer who's trying to discover this in like a year after it happened. And it was fire. It was definitely good to like...

Kelly (41:40)
No.

Okay.

Hmm.

my God. Dig here.

Nikki (42:09)
pick that up after this one because this one I enjoyed so much. And to be able to just like roll on into another Lisa Jewel that was also a five star was just so good. So good.

Kelly (42:21)
yes, you gave this a five star. We didn't even say that.

Nikki (42:26)
Yeah, I think I did. I think I gave it five. Feels like a five in my heart.

Kelly (42:31)
I think that's what I saw. I gave it a four and a half because I just found the ending was a little drawn out, but like I still loved it. It was like, my God, so stressful. And I, yeah, the ending was very sad, very dark, which is fine. but yeah, I do think there's a lot of different.

Nikki (42:39)
Right.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Kelly (42:59)
I mean, duh, Kelly, but there's like a lot of different styles of thrillers, right? Cause like, they're not always like that at the end. Sometimes it's like, boom, we caught the guy or we solved it. And then it's like done basically. But I do, I both like and kind of sometimes I'm like, eh, about how she kind of lets it like fizzle out a little bit, you know, because hers or at least the two that I've read, they were both really rooted in reality.

Nikki (43:03)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Right.

Kelly (43:29)
which was great. So it makes sense that it's not just like, boom, we're done. But sometimes I'm like, I want it that way. But I did feel like, at the end.

Nikki (43:37)
Yeah, I like how she ends her books because I'm really interested in what's happening to everybody after. Like, I want to know all of those, like, little things of what they're saying or what they're thinking. So I personally like that. So this is your second one. The only other one you've read is The Family Upstairs.

Kelly (43:46)
Hmm.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yes. Yeah. But I'm excited to read more because like she's good, you know? So and I, I could not guess this stuff. And I don't think I guessed much if anything at all in her other book, you know, so there was no creepy inkblot in mine. So that was good.

Nikki (44:06)
Man.

my god, so good. So good.

That is good.

Kelly (44:28)
I was like, God, but I'm very excited. They're going to adapt this. I think there's promise, you know, it could be really, really good. Fingers crossed.

Nikki (44:38)
I do too, and hopefully it is. I think if they let her have a say in it, then it'll be good, even if they do have to change some things. But I don't see why they would need to change a lot in this. And the way that the story works, it's like a puzzle. Like if you change one piece, you have to change the whole...

Kelly (44:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

No. No.

Nikki (45:08)
thing so I don't know fingers crossed

Kelly (45:09)
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

Nikki (45:18)
Could you imagine if they released it as a documentary and everybody thought it was like real? Like War of the Worlds?

Kelly (45:19)
So we check.

just like the, I was gonna say like Blair Witch project, which that's what I thought of earlier when you said, I want them to get like no name people, cause then you feel like it's real, cause that's what they did with that. And like, you never saw them again. Career over.

Nikki (45:30)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

you imagine if they had to sign that in the contract like you're not allowed to do any movie work for the next 10 years or something or else you're gonna like ruin the the vibe.

Kelly (45:51)
my god. I love that movie. I'm not a horror person, but I do love it because it's all atmosphere and...

Nikki (46:02)
I know, the jump scares are really good.

Kelly (46:05)
And the snot. It's like I was there.

Nikki (46:09)
yeah I know.

Kelly (46:12)
I'm just checking my notes.

I do have a question. That's okay. Because I read this so long ago, I tried to like, get a refresher before this, but I don't remember. Do you remember if we ever got any kind of info on Josie's dad or like what her parents were like? Because I know we talked to her mom a bit, but I don't remember.

Nikki (46:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, so her mom mentions her dad one time and she says, she like didn't even know she was pregnant. And by the time she did know, the dad was like gone. And so he like doesn't even know that he has a daughter, probably for the best at this point.

Kelly (47:12)
Okay.

Hmm.

God, like I did feel a lot of sadness for Josie throughout the book as well as like just complete shock and awe and horror, you know, but.

Yeah, I just...

Nikki (47:39)
I don't think I felt bad for her because I'm like, I mean, I know there's a lot of argument on like nature versus nurture with people who have psychological problems, but I just really feel like she was going to be like this no matter what her mom was like. So.

Whatever.

Kelly (48:02)
Let the chips fall where they may and let's hope I don't fall in there as well.

Nikki (48:06)
Yep, I mean, it's fiction. But... yeah.

Kelly (48:10)
Yeah, yeah.

I mean, if her daughter is autistic, the odds are one of her parents are also autistic. You know what I mean? Like not always, but usually. So I don't know if it would be Walter or her. I also don't want to go down that road, you know, of like the villain of the story, you know, like so, but no, I just,

Nikki (48:16)
wild.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Kelly (48:45)
I did feel a little sad for her, not... You're gonna laugh at me, but kind of like how I feel about Gollum.

Gollum is so gross and just terrible and does so many awful things and yet I do still feel a little like you make me sad, you know? I feel sad for you, but I do not excuse all the shit you did to Frodo and Sam and all the other people, okay? So, or hobbits, not people, I guess, whatever, but. Yeah.

Nikki (48:57)
Yeah.

See ya!

Yeah.

fair. Gollum's different though, he's in a different tier.

Kelly (49:24)
She is the Gollum.

Yeah, but anyways, I don't know.

Nikki (49:31)
Like maybe I would feel bad for Josie if she also like physically turned into something totally different than a person and like only ate fish from streams. Like maybe I would also feel really bad for her but I'm just like, I just...

Kelly (49:41)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki (49:53)
Ugh, the way that they just left her like she's on a bus just thinking about this stuff, probably waiting to change her identity and go do it to someone else. It just blows my mind.

Kelly (49:55)
I know.

Right? Maybe, maybe this podcast slash documentary thing in the book. Well, do you think she left the door open for a sequel?

Nikki (50:21)
I don't know. I don't know when this book was written. I know she doesn't really like to do sequels. And okay, yeah, I know she doesn't really like to do sequels and that The Family Remains was kind of like an anomaly. I think that's the maybe one of the only books she's ever written a sequel to is The Family Upstairs. So I'm not holding my breath for it. I think that

Kelly (50:26)
Last year. Okay. It was last year.

Mm -hmm.

Okay.

Nikki (50:49)
She was just leaving it as more of an ambiguous end, which is fine. If she wrote a sequel, I would definitely be reading it. Like, I'm not above knowing what's, what's happening. But yeah, I don't know, maybe too, like, if they do something on Netflix, maybe she'll feel compelled to write another book because then there'll be more for Netflix. I don't know.

Kelly (50:53)
Mm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

wonder. Sorry, I thought I was done. And then I was like, wait a sec. Because throughout the book, she says a Netflix original series, which a lot of the times when they do things like that, they like make up a similar sounding name, but you know, it's Netflix. So I'm like, were they in on it? Like, were they like, we want you to write something that we will adapt? Because that would be fucking cool, because it is a good book. So like, good for you. But

Nikki (51:24)
Yeah.

Right.

Right. Yeah, there very rarely are good books when you get asked to do things like that.

Kelly (51:46)
Yes, yes, like no shade but also shade.

Nikki (51:49)
Or maybe that's just how she got the deal with Netflix. Because they were like, well, I mean, it's already there for us anyway. So we might as well do it. Yeah.

Kelly (51:54)
Smart.

Yeah, we're already a part of it. Yeah, we're canon. I just think the way this is laid out in the book and the podcast and everything. This could be like the Jinx, like the HBO series, the Jinx, where they lay it all out. They find him guilty or they don't find him guilty. They get a new piece of evidence and then shit hits the fan in real life. He goes to prison, all this stuff. So this could be like the Jinx part one. And then we have.

Nikki (52:24)
Mm -hmm.

Kelly (52:25)
The Jinx part two, where she's on the bus. She tries to run away. They find her, goes through this crazy trial, some nice psych eval sessions for the court, all this stuff. I would read it. I would read it. Just saying.

Nikki (52:43)
I would. Too excited.

Kelly (52:47)
I was gonna go.

I'm also available to play the crazy person, clearly.

This motion, like my god. Anyways. I would say you can cut that out, but I know you won't, so.

Nikki (53:02)
That's too funny.

No, I won't. Especially now that we have the video.

Kelly (53:13)
I hate it. Great. Well, I'm done.

Nikki (53:18)
On that note, thank you so much for listening and watching today. We love Lisa Jewell. I will take any chance I can to talk about her. If you want to see more from us, you can follow us on Instagram at BYO Book Podcast or on TikTok at Bring Your Own Book Podcast. And remember, if you're having feelings about lying about your entire life, maybe you should go to therapy and have a great one. See ya!