"Practical Magic" by Alice Hoffman

In this episode of BYOB, hosts Kelly and Nikki dive into a discussion about 'Practical Magic' by Alice Hoffman, exploring their differing opinions on the book and its movie adaptation. They analyze character differences, themes of magic versus reality, and the emotional connections portrayed in the story. The conversation also touches on the narrative style and structure of the book, as well as their personal reflections on the writing style, character dynamics, and the challenges of adapting the book into a film. They explore their personal reactions to the narrative, the tonal shifts in the movie, and the differences between magical realism and urban fantasy. And, of course, they talk about the upcoming Wicked movie adaptation because, witches.

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Are you a fan of the 'Practical Magic' book, movie, or both?

Transcript

Kelly (00:11)
Hey everyone, welcome to BYOB, the Bring Your Own Book podcast. I'm Kelly. And today we are talking about the classic cozy fall vibes book, Practical Magic by Alice Hoffman. Yay! I'm so excited to talk about this.

Nikki (00:15)
And I'm Nikki.

Yay!

Kelly (00:33)
There's a little preview for how Nikki's feeling, I'm sure.

Nikki (00:37)
I'm really like, I'm excited to hear your thoughts, because I have thoughts. I know they're not the thoughts that you initially wanted me to have from reading this book. But.

Kelly (00:50)
That's okay. That's okay. And I feel like we haven't had a book in a bit where we've like really disagreed on some things. So this will be interesting because we don't plan this. We don't plan, we're both going to love the book. Like we just know each other pretty well. So if we like something, usually we both like it. But anyways, before we go into all that, do you want to read the synopsis of this book that you may or may not have hated?

Nikki (00:58)
That's true. I know.

Yes.

Yep, I know.

Sure. Yeah, I would love to. The Owens sisters confront the challenges of life and love in this bewitching novel from New York Times bestselling author Alice Hoffman. For more than 200 years, the Owens women have been blamed for everything that has gone wrong in their Massachusetts town. Gillian and Sally have endured that fate as well. As children, the sisters were forever outsiders, taunted, talked about,

pointed at. Their elderly aunts almost seemed to encourage the whispers of witchery and their musty house and their exotic concoctions and their crowd of black cats. But all Gillian and Sandy, it's cause Stockard Channing's in the movie. I'm like, yes, Grease part three. If Danny had rejected her.

Kelly (02:00)
Sandy! Stranded at the drive-in!

God, that's a whole other episode.

If Sandy had rejected him, God. Anyways, that's a whole other episode.

Nikki (02:18)
Right?

Okay, but all Gillian and Sally wanted was to escape. One will do so by marrying, the other by running away, but the bonds they may share, no, but the bonds they share will bring them back, almost as if by magic.

I even take the synopsis seriously.

Kelly (02:46)
I don't want you to edit any of that out, honestly.

Nikki (02:50)
I'm not going to.

Kelly (02:54)
We need a Grease episode. We need some musical theater analyzing episodes, okay? You and I, watch out world.

Nikki (02:58)
I know.

It'll be a trip.

Kelly (03:04)
Okay, right? Okay, practical magic. I guess, okay, so I guess I'll talk quickly about, if people don't know, this book, I have the 25th anniversary edition. I think this is a few years old by now, so it's been out for like a long time. It was adapted into a movie in 1998.

In October, it came out, of course, that tracks. The movie did not do well critically. But and Nikki's like, I can see why. Which we're definitely gonna talk about. But it was it was really popular with fans. So it had this like cult classic kind of following. And so I watched the movie first. I enjoyed it. And then I kind of forgot what happened.

Nikki (03:35)
Yep.

Yup.

Kelly (04:01)
which will go into your experience with it because then I read the book and I was like, my God, I loved the book. I gave it five out of five. I knew people who I had worked with or just knew who had watched the movie and read the book and they didn't like one or the other, a lot of them. Whereas I'm like, okay, well I like them both for different reasons. And I think it's kind of funny. Like this one person I know, he was like,

Nikki (04:01)
Right.

Kelly (04:30)
I think she wrote all the other books based off of how they did the movie because the other books I really love and I'm like, I don't think that's how it worked. But like, okay, I'm glad you liked her other books. anyways, right. So what was your how did you get into this whole thing?

Nikki (04:43)
Maybe.

Okay, so from you, had heard of Practical Magic, like not so much people talking about the book, I knew it was a book, but from people talking about the movie. So people who were ultimate fans of the movie, Midnight Margarita Bitches, whatever, like people who love that. And I thought like going into it,

Kelly (04:53)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (05:16)
I thought that this was going to be something totally different than it was. Like the actual, no one actually talked about like what the plot of the movie is.

Kelly (05:26)
Yeah, it's all about the vibes. Yeah.

Nikki (05:28)
Yeah, the vibes in like three scenes for a movie that lasts like way longer than that, which is fine, I guess. So we decided, you and I kind of, that it would be better if I watched the movie before I read the book, because usually if you read the book and then you watch the movie, you hate the movie because you want it to be like the book was.

Kelly (05:31)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Nikki (05:54)
But if you watch the movie first, you have more grace about. So I felt like it was more like objective to watch the movie before I read the book. And I was like, not into it. I mean, there were parts that were fun and I loved the house. Like who doesn't love the house? But I was just the whole time I was like, what the hell is this?

Kelly (05:55)
Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Right? Yeah.

Nikki (06:24)
And then I read the book, I gave it like a 2.5 or like a 2, like around there out of 5. I was like, then I was just even more confused because the book, it could be called like practical magic just because everybody thinks they're magic, not because they are, because you never ever hear about them doing any kind of magic.

Kelly (06:26)
I know.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Nikki (06:53)
until the last like 30 pages and it's not even them it's their aunts that come in to like help save the day they really steer you wrong with the fact that they never go back to that house that big house in the movie

Kelly (06:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

I forgot, yeah, cause you asked me. was like, I don't know, but I knew that the aunts came back. Didn't they?

Nikki (07:15)
Yeah. Yeah, they go to Sally's house. And I think she lives in like New York state or something like that anyway. So like they're planning to go on this trip to visit the aunts for a week because it's summer vacation. And it's like, but they knew that they weren't going to make it to the aunt's house. And I was like, why not?

Kelly (07:20)
Okay.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. You're like, no.

Nikki (07:44)
That's what I've been reading for. The characters are so different.

Kelly (07:46)
So wait, yeah, so okay, Sally is Sandra Bullock in the movie, correct? Yeah, and Gillian is Nicole Kidman. So if people have seen the movie, but they don't remember like me, or you've read the book, whatever. If you know about the movie, these are who these people are, yeah.

Nikki (07:54)
Yep.

Yup.

So Sally has daughters who in the book are way older than they are in the movie and honestly they were my favorite part of the book. I liked them the most. I liked their, I felt their drama was more intriguing than everybody else's.

Kelly (08:08)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki (08:23)
I don't know.

Kelly (08:23)
I so okay when we watched the movie together you and I I felt so bad because I was like Nikki this is gonna be awesome you're gonna love it and then I was watching with you and I was like I don't remember any of this

Nikki (08:30)
Yeah.

Only the vibe stuck.

Kelly (08:43)
seen it? Yes, I had seen it once years ago with Scott and we watched it because I was like, I've heard so many things about this is supposed to be a cult classic. Let's watch it. And yeah, the vibes, the music, I love the music in the movie. It's just like cozy, nostalgic 90s. And like we grew up in the 90s. So just like, you know, like Sabrina, the teenage witch kind of vibes, you know, like, love that. But when you get down to the actual plot,

Nikki (08:50)
Right.

Yeah. Right.

Kelly (09:13)
it like I remember going into the movie I was like I don't think it's that different from the book but there's like definitely differences it was totally different than the book and I still like them both for what they are but I like the book way more personally that's my two cents on it and oh sorry you go ahead

Nikki (09:22)
Yeah.

Yes.

For sure. I think. No, you go.

Kelly (09:38)
I was just going to say the thing you said about like their magic in the book and like how everyone's magic and all this stuff. That's a debate, right? We don't know. But I do think I do like in the book how it's kind of more spiritual, the whole like magic thing and all that's like how it's portrayed. Like, yes, there are like still the aunts do like love potions and like things like that that you hear about just like in the movie.

But like in the movie, it was so like campy, corny, like all the women get together, they've got their brooms, they're like, let's exorcise Nicole Kidman, you know what I mean? And I'm like, okay. But in the book, it's a totally different scenario. Like that does not happen in the book. There's not this kumbaya moment with all the neighborhood women. Like, and I prefer that in the book because it's like, bitch, that's not how women are. Women are so mean.

Sometimes they are either the best or the worst thing that's ever happened to you and I can respect that. You know what I mean? But no kumbaya.

Nikki (10:37)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, she doesn't get, Does she get possessed in the book? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Kelly (10:52)
No, no, like they're kind of haunted by him and the daughter is the one who sees him in the in the yard, right?

Nikki (11:02)
Right, and it's just like mostly the bush, which is in the movie, like the lilac bush or whatever. And then there's like the cop. That whole storyline is also just like very weird to me. And at least in the book, they don't get together at the end. They just like leave. They're just like, you're obviously my soulmate.

Kelly (11:06)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, Aiden Quinn.

Yeah.

Nikki (11:33)
but they just separate and like, they're not.

Kelly (11:35)
But it's like kind of assumed that they will get together like the way it ends, but it doesn't happen on the page.

Nikki (11:39)
Right. yeah, because he's like, I will come back to you or I don't know, something like that.

Kelly (11:46)
Cause he sends, she gets in the mail like, they found the, the bad guy. I forget his name, but like Gillian's ex boyfriend, Jimmy. yes. Okay. So they find Jimmy, his burned body in the desert when it's really just some rando guy. And he's like, I guess this case is closed. Like you're safe. You and your sister are safe. So yeah, like, you know,

Nikki (11:53)
Jimmy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kelly (12:15)
something's gonna go on, but they don't, yeah, they don't get together at the end. Yeah.

Nikki (12:19)
I think the main thing that threw me off from the book right at the beginning is the fact that the first like 10 % of the book, there is like no dialogue. All telling, no showing. And I was like, could we get, it felt like the longest prologue in history. Also, the chapters were so long. I was like, please, like, why do they need to be like 40 fucking pages or more?

Kelly (12:31)
I know.

Yeah, so I, I don't know if I told you, I definitely warned my mom because when I started the book, I was like, like it's done in parts and not chapters. Cause I'm the type of reader that I like to finish a chapter before I close the book if I can. And so I was like, I guess I'm reading the chunk. Like I was like, so I'm like literally Nikki, every time I think about this, I'm like, how did I like this book? How?

Nikki (13:01)
Yeah.

Kelly (13:14)
Did I give this a five star? Because you know me, I don't usually like coming of age, women, woohoo, like, yeah, ya ya sisterhood, I hate that. This is about witches and I liked it, which, okay, but like the lyrical writing, usually I'm like, mm, I fucking loved it. The long ass chapters, normally I'd be like, fuck this. I was like, I'm in it to win it. Like, what is happening?

Nikki (13:17)
Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. They must have bewitched you. Because I'm your, your true thoughts on like...

Kelly (13:44)
Body and soul.

This is my fried green tomatoes, okay? This is, right?

Nikki (13:53)
wild. I mean, I don't have a problem with coming of age stories and stuff. Like I love Fried Green Tomatoes. I love the Joy Luck Club that has a similar kind of like familial, like growing storyline, not similar in terms of the content at all. But like, you know, that kind of vibe. So I like stuff like that. But I was just like...

Kelly (14:01)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. No.

Mm-hmm.

Nikki (14:22)
The I feel like what was promised was not delivered. And I don't mean like promised by you or promise. Like I just mean the the way that the general public talks about this like franchise. I'm like, are we in two different universes? Maybe. I don't know. Like I

Kelly (14:27)
Hmm. Yeah.

I mean, maybe. Yeah.

Nikki (14:49)
I feel like the writing, the lyricalness was not hitting me the way that she wanted it to. There was maybe only one moment in the whole book where I was like, that's really nice. And I can't even remember what it is now. I feel like it had something to do with Gillian, but...

Kelly (14:58)
Mm.

Yeah.

Okay.

Nikki (15:15)
I know, I can't even remember what it is now. There was literally two lines in that whole book where I was like, yeah, that like was touching. And I mean, it felt like a long ass book. I know it's not that big, but when you are reading or listening to a chapter and it's like an hour and 40 minutes, I'm like, what?

Kelly (15:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, yeah, I can totally get that. Yeah, like it's just under 300 pages, but it definitely is a slower read. Yeah, which I yeah, I agree with that, it definitely is.

Nikki (15:51)
Cause like a lot of little things happened, but it felt like nothing big happened.

Kelly (15:58)
until like the end kind of yeah

Nikki (16:00)
Yeah, when they do whatever they do. I don't even... What do they do? Banish him? I don't know.

Kelly (16:05)
Yeah.

They... They... Yeah, they they solve that problem of the lilac bush somehow. I can't even remember right now. Frig. But I just loved it. Right? I know. Which is not how this ended.

Nikki (16:17)
Yeah.

I'm only remembering the movie.

and her like, I don't know, the possession and stuff. I was like, what is this? And then, yeah, all of the women coming and being like, we're gonna help and don't break the circle and all that stuff. It was wild and unnecessary.

Kelly (16:33)
I know, I know.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. Like I really loved in the book how all of the characters and I mean, most of them are women, which cool, but even the men what we knew of the few male characters, like they were all imperfect, which I loved. Like the main people, they had a bunch of shit going on. And sometimes you're not going to agree with it or you are or like whatever. But even like the people that are like peripheral to them.

Nikki (17:07)
Mm-hmm.

Kelly (17:18)
Like I'm thinking of the woman who works at the diner, I wanna say, who like asks the aunts for help, cause she's like desperately in love with this man. And then like shit hits the fan and then she loses her voice. Like she can no longer speak anymore. You feel kind of bad for her, but you also don't cause she's a bitch. Like she's so awful to people.

Nikki (17:34)
Yeah.

Kelly (17:42)
And then you're like, well, I kind of sympathize or I can empathize because like she had this horrible thing happen to her, but she was awful. Like there's so many like nuances and like the way they all kind of like, like the kids will like chat with her and they like, you know, I just kind of liked how there's so many little characters that we knew a lot about and like how imperfect they were, I guess. Like it made it feel really real to me versus like,

Nikki (17:51)
Right.

Right.

Right.

Kelly (18:10)
there's a girl down the street or like the mom in school who doesn't like me, but all of a sudden she's going to help me out because we're women. Like, no.

Nikki (18:18)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I think that like

Kelly (18:23)
That's not how it works.

Nikki (18:27)
I know, I think they were smart when they did the movie for keeping it kind of like more all in the family. How in the book, Sally, so Gillian leaves just like in the movie, but Sally also leaves after her husband dies. She takes her daughters and they go live somewhere else. But in the book,

Kelly (18:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (18:53)
that doesn't happen. She's still living with the aunts and the aunts are helping to raise her daughters. And I feel like that was very smart of them because it adds like this whole other layer. You can't, you can get away with writing a book that doesn't really have anything going on, but that's a lot harder to do in a movie. To like have a movie that's like this lady made tea and

Kelly (19:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (19:23)
She thinks about magical things, but she never fucking does any magic. Why did we call this movie practical magic? Because that's bullshit. Like that's literally what it would have been like. In the movie, they framed it that Sally was super powerful, but that she just didn't agree. And so she stopped doing magic. And in the book, was just like, Sally doesn't do magic because are people magic? Who fucking knows?

Kelly (19:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Nikki (19:51)
super ambiguous, but I didn't feel like in a good way. So.

Kelly (19:51)
Hmm.

I thought in the book it was like she refused and her because there was still that that kind of plot device of like her aunt saying like you are powerful you just don't like want to tap into it or whatever like she's like very much like everything has to be logical and real world and blah blah blah and her her daughter is like you know like off the charts like she sees things that kind of thing but I

Nikki (20:13)
Right.

Kelly (20:24)
Correct me if I'm wrong, in the book, when her daughter sees Jimmy in the yard, Sally isn't like, you're wrong. She immediately like believes her daughter, right?

Nikki (20:36)
Yeah, I don't know if she tells her that she saw Jimmy. Because I know she gets the ring from the frog. And she's like, that's when she's they're like, how did this happen? She goes, I got it from the frog in the backyard. This was like lurking around the lilac bush. I saw this dude there and they're like, but that's like kind of towards the end of the book anyway. I don't know.

Kelly (20:43)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nikki (21:03)
I feel like I read this book and as soon as I was done, like offloaded the information and I was like, okay, moving on.

Kelly (21:04)
Okay.

Mm, yeah. Have you read anything by Alice Hoffman before? No? Okay, so I

Nikki (21:20)
No. I thought she only had these, like the series.

Kelly (21:25)
Okay, yeah. Yeah, I guess like this is her big, big, big series. When I was a kid, I didn't know until I picked this book up. But I read her book Aquamarine, which is about a mermaid. And they made. Yeah, they made a movie out of it, which I've never seen. Right? I've never. yeah.

Nikki (21:30)
Right.

like the movie Aquamarine with Sarah Paxton.

Holy jeez. I've seen it. I don't remember it, but I did see it when I was a kid.

Kelly (21:51)
Okay, I have not seen it and I haven't read the book since I was a kid, but I had when I was a kid, I read the book like a couple times. I just loved it. But then when I picked this up, I was like, my God, she wrote Aquamarine. So I was like, maybe I will like it because I was a little nervous going in because I'm like, I don't know. I've heard it's so different from the movie or whatever. But I think because I liked Aqua Marine, it really helped me because I clearly just vibe with her writing style. You know what mean?

Nikki (22:07)
Right.

Right.

Kelly (22:18)
So good for me, not so good for you, I'm sorry.

Nikki (22:21)
Yeah, I think too, this is obviously, don't judge a book by its cover and whatever, I do. So one of her books in this series has a picture of a woman's face on the cover and it's kind of like windswept or it's like dissolving behind her or something. And I remember seeing that cover when I was a kid and being like, ew.

Kelly (22:28)
Yeah, same. We all do. Don't lie.

Mm-hmm.

Nikki (22:50)
Ew. What the hell is this? Ew. And I think that moment 15 plus years ago solidified the fact that I will never like this series. A predetermined destiny, if you will. It could be magic.

Kelly (22:53)
Yeah.

I love that.

God, this poor woman's like, what's wrong with my face?

Nikki (23:20)
It's like a weird drawing, it's a really weird drawing. Do you know what cover I'm talking about?

Kelly (23:23)
It is. Yeah, I think. Yes, I think it's called Book of Magic. That's the one about their ancestor. I believe.

Nikki (23:28)
Book of Magic.

How is, about, was it their mom? Magic lessons.

Kelly (23:37)
Their mom?

yes. is that the one? It's about the very first. It's like the way back. I think so.

Nikki (23:49)
about Maria? I don't know, but I remember seeing this in the bookstore when I was a kid and I was like, Disgusting.

Kelly (23:59)
Well, and like, okay, this cover, don't mind, but a lot of this version, like the cover for this book, I don't like either. Which I'm like, who's doing your covers?

Nikki (24:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well that's the thing, they're not, none of them are good.

Kelly (24:14)
And why is it a boot? Yeah, I don't know. Why is this a boot? There's no mention of a boot in the book. I know there's like vines coming out, they're growing stuff, but I do like this version of the cover versus like, yeah, like the dark one with the boot looks like, what is that? Yeah, like not, not for me, not for me, but mine had.

Nikki (24:23)
I know.

the best. Yeah. Yeah, it's like kind of purple and stuff.

Yeah, I know, I agree.

Kelly (24:44)
My book had an introduction beforehand and I actually read it, which I don't usually, but I thought I'm going to read it because I want to know what she's talking about. And it was super sweet. like, I was tearing up in the introduction. So I knew I was going to like this book. Honestly, like she had mentioned how, because her book has been out for so long, she's had the opportunity to have like multiple generations in a family read her book, which doesn't happen for a lot of people, right?

Nikki (24:47)
yeah.

No.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kelly (25:12)
And so she was talking about how like lovely it was to hear from readers who like they and their moms have read it together or like a grandmother, mother, daughter have read it. And I was like, like I wish I could have done that with my grandma. I think she would have loved this book. I asked my mom and my sisters to read the book when I was starting it. Cause I was like, I want us to read this. My mom read it. I don't, I don't even know if she liked it. I didn't hear after mom. Did you like it?

Nikki (25:22)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kelly (25:42)
Come on.

Nikki (25:45)
Yeah.

Kelly (25:46)
Come on people, even if you don't like it, tell me, I wanna know. You know what I mean?

Nikki (25:50)
When I read things with my mom, she'll be like, yeah, it was good. And I'm like, could you elaborate? And she goes, I liked it.

Kelly (25:59)
Yeah.

Nikki (26:02)
Okay, sure.

Kelly (26:04)
My mom will talk about things, like the only thing she asked me or that I remember her bringing up about this book was when she was reading it, she was like, why are we going to this random guy with the lightning? And I was like, just keep reading mom. It's okay. Like just, just let her take you there. Like it's the cop.

Nikki (26:21)
Random guy with the lightning.

Kelly (26:25)
He gets hit by lightning when he's like a little younger, I guess. And I think someone else got hit by lightning too in his family, but he survived it. So he's like lucky, you know? I really liked, I can't believe I liked this book, Nikki. I really can't. When I think about...

Nikki (26:38)
Right.

Did he get hit by lightning? Because the aunts are talking about how aunt Jett was in love with this boy and him and another boy were running across the field and got hit by lightning and the boy died.

Kelly (26:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, that's a different person.

Nikki (27:02)
Okay, is that was that supposed to be like a parallel? Like, because he got hit by lightning and survived, he deserves the witch's love. Now I'm like, now I have other things that I'm like, what the fuck?

Kelly (27:10)
No.

I like I need to reread, honestly, some of this stuff because when I was in it, when I was in it, I was like, I was in it. I was entranced. I am like 95 % sure that the police officer got hit by lightning when he was younger, but he's not the child. And by younger, I don't mean he was a child. Like I think a few years ago, he got hit by lightning. So, but I just loved like,

Nikki (27:18)
I don't remember that.

I see. Okay.

Kelly (27:45)
normally, I would hate this kind of almost stream of consciousness kind of writing style, where again, my mom was like, why are we following this random guy who was hit by lightning? And I'm like, just keep going. She's gonna take you there. But it'll be like we're talking about something. And then Nikki took a sip of her drink. And then she starts thinking about how cozy that drink was. And then she starts thinking about a memory as she went on a picnic and she had that drink. And then this happened at the picnic. And you meet someone at that picnic in your memory. And then suddenly we're back to

Nikki (27:48)
Yeah.

Kelly (28:15)
present and it's that person with the picnic and blah blah blah you know like that's how it's written and normally I would hate that and I was like I love this

Nikki (28:23)
I'm glad that you did, you know? I think I have enough books like this that I like and it was just your time. You know, this one's for you.

Kelly (28:32)
Yes! Yeah! Yeah! Like, I don't want to say I'm bummed you didn't like it, because no, it's like, whatever, we can just have a conversation. But like, it's true, I don't usually like that kind of book. So it's good that I have one. I have one now.

Nikki (28:46)
Yeah. Are you going to continue the series, do you think? Or you'll just stop? Yeah?

Kelly (28:53)
I I am. I, so I was going to read them through the library like as an ebook, but I also want to have the paperbacks. I don't know if you can hear Lily grumbling. If you do, it's not me.

Nikki (29:00)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

No, I heard her just like move right now, but I haven't been hearing like her going like, rrrr.

Kelly (29:14)
Okay, she let out a big grumble. She's like, she's so cute. But she's yeah, Grumblina But no, I want to buy the paperbacks because I love paperbacks. And I think I'm gonna love the books. I just want to have them all. But it's just a matter of like, when am I ready and available to read the library books, because I get so stressed. You know what I mean? Because it's like being a mood reader.

Nikki (29:28)
Right.

Right.

Kelly (29:40)
You have two weeks to read this book and if you don't, there's a lineup behind you and I'm like, fuck like, yeah. So I'll get there, but I haven't read the other ones yet, but I really want to. So yeah, we'll see. Me too. I hope so. I mean, according to my coworker, they're a little different than this book. So I'm not telling you to read them. I'm just going to tell you if they are different.

Nikki (29:47)
I know.

well that's good. I hope you like those too.

Right.

Yeah, no, yeah, I want I definitely want to know if they're different and I definitely won't read them. But I'd love to hear about it.

Kelly (30:08)
I'm not going to make you read that. Yeah.

Yeah. yeah. I just do want you to think I was like, you should read them. No, I'll just let you know. Like, is it still written that way or does she change? Like, yeah, just curious.

Nikki (30:25)
Yeah. Yeah, it did really make me want to read something that was like witchy, that like I would like. Like it did put me in the vibe to like read about magic just in a different way. So that's cool.

Kelly (30:36)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, like I said, I feel like the book is more about like, kind of like spiritual, not practical magic, you know, and the movie is more about like, we're mixing potions and we're doing this and we're doing like the more like, what's it called? A spectacle of it, I guess, you know,

Nikki (31:03)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (31:18)
but yeah, I don't know. I just, yeah, I loved it. But do you have a fave- I don't remember if you said you have a favorite character. You liked the daughters.

Nikki (31:27)
probably one of the daughters and I kind of feel like it ended up being the older daughter just because like she was kind of like shafted a little bit like she is like I don't know her her younger sister gets like a glow up where she becomes like super hottie like

Kelly (31:38)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki (31:56)
Gillian minion kind of situation and the older sister has like kind of just like left in the dust of that and so that made me feel kind of bad for her even though she was like kind of bitchy at the beginning but that's like what older sisters do I feel like I don't have one but I feel like if I had an older sister she'd be a little bitchy to me because I'd be younger.

Kelly (31:59)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's just what sisters, yeah.

Nikki (32:26)
But yeah, I kind of just like felt bad for her. And also the just relating to like having a boyfriend in high school and being like, we're gonna be gone away from each other for a week and my life is over. And I just, liked that touch too of like that kind of like real teen moment that was happening there. So yeah, probably the older sister. What about you?

Kelly (32:50)
Yeah. for sure. I, God. Okay. Let me just say something quickly to what you just said before I try to figure that out. I really loved the relationships between the women, whether they were sisters or mother daughter. I found those extremely believable and relatable at times because as someone who has two sisters, but even if you just have friends,

Nikki (33:13)
Mm-hmm.

Kelly (33:19)
or mother daughter whatever, there's instances where you are so pissed off or upset, but you still love them like to the extreme. You know what I mean? Like you would run in a fire for them, but you're like, I fucking hate your guts right now. You know what I mean? So I really loved the like intense emotional kind of stuff, but you knew there was always an undercurrent of like they loved each other.

Nikki (33:19)
Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kelly (33:44)
You know, so I did, I liked that it was very like stressful and emotional, but also great. And the two sisters. Right. But okay. Who was my favorite?

Nikki (33:50)
Yeah.

Yeah, I get that for sure.

Kelly (34:01)
I kinda...

I feel like I loved most of the characters for some reason, but the person who's coming to mind right now for whatever reason is the teacher. The guy that Gillian gets with? Yeah. I don't know. For right now, I think he's my favorite. I just kind of like loved him how he was just like, but he he was

Nikki (34:15)
Gillian Marys. Yep.

I totally forgot about him.

Kelly (34:30)
like secondary character energy and he knew Gillian was main character energy and he was all in and she has a lot of shit going on in her life and he was just like I'm obsessed with you whatever you want whatever you need I'm here like yeah yeah because wasn't he like a magician like for fun yeah

Nikki (34:33)
yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I liked his rabbit too.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (34:55)
I just loved how he was like dorky. Did he teach math or something lame or science or lame, know, like.

Nikki (34:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think he was like a biology teacher.

Kelly (35:04)
Yeah, yeah, so he's like, know, a little dorky dude with this wild child, Gillian, who's like, so opposite of him. I just, he was sweet.

Nikki (35:06)
Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah, like, book about witches and the most magic you get is from the part-time magician biology teacher. That's a twist you didn't think was gonna happen.

Kelly (35:22)
Mm-hmm.

I don't know. think there was magic all up in this book because yeah, it's like nature is magic, right? And like, why is this lilac bush blooming when it shouldn't be blooming? I thought it was funny how like the news was coming over to like look at this bush that's growing out of season. They're like, get out of here.

Nikki (35:43)
Right.

Right. Yep.

Kelly (35:58)
But that's totally something that would happen. Local news would be like, everyone's flocking to this, to this house on the corner with a lilac bush that won't stop growing, right?

Nikki (36:00)
yeah.

Yeah.

Kelly (36:11)
my God, but no.

Nikki (36:13)
Yeah, this was just like...

I know, like I really wonder what it would have been like if I had read the book and then seen the movie. Like would I have had really different opinions on the book if I hadn't gone in with like this expectation of like more like overt magic and I was just waiting for I well I knew that the women get together at the end and I'm pretty sure you had told me that she didn't get possessed in the book.

Kelly (36:26)
Mmm.

Mm.

Yeah, yeah.

Nikki (36:49)
But there was like a lot leading up to that that could have been in the book and it wouldn't have really like affected how the book ended. So I don't know, like maybe I would have liked it more. I don't think so.

Kelly (36:57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right? Because I think and that's okay. I think it boils down to if you didn't like the writing style, then you're kind of screwed. Right?

Nikki (37:12)
Well, yeah, I think that's it. Like if it would have jumped more into actual plot, maybe I would have been more excited about continuing with it. But because the beginning was just so, it just felt so long with the amount of detail they were giving and backstory that I just

Kelly (37:14)
Hehehe

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Nikki (37:41)
From then on, I just couldn't get really invested. Yeah, I don't know.

Kelly (37:45)
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. I, I really

What was I trying to say? I loved the amount of like, I mean, literally the like sensual writing of like how she was always commenting on like the color of the sky or like the smell of this or the feel of this or whatever. like, again, normally I'm like, okay, move along. She cast a spell on me. I got to tell you, I feel like she totally did. Cause normally, yeah, I'm like, could we get going?

Nikki (38:04)
Mm-hmm.

I feel like that's why you really liked, what is it, the Broken Heart series? Yeah, I feel like that's the way you describe why you love that series as well, though.

Kelly (38:24)
But I, yeah.

Once upon a broken heart, yeah. Yeah.

It's like totally different vibes and writing style, but they do both. They do paint the picture really clearly of like the sky was bubblegum pink and she touched the tree that glistened and it felt like this and da da da da da. Like she just like paints this picture, but she doesn't stay on the tree for pages and pages and pages. No, she's succinct. Yes. my God. I'm pointing here. Stephanie Garber up here.

Nikki (38:42)
Yes.

Yeah.

Like Charles Dickens.

Kelly (39:08)
my god, Where is it?

Nikki (39:11)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Kelly (39:15)
I can't look at the camera in point.

Whatever, okay, I have my strengths and weaknesses. is one of the weaknesses. Stephanie Garber, I love her writing style because whatever you're going to say about her, she is descriptive but succinct and she is also sensual in the way she writes of like touch, taste, smell, sight, hearing, whatever, which I love. Yeah. So, but that was similar to this.

Nikki (39:25)
You

Yeah.

Kelly (39:50)
But I did like that a lot. I really did.

Nikki (39:54)
Yeah.

Kelly (39:55)
What did you think about, I'm going to forget his name now, but the younger daughter's best friend?

Nikki (40:03)
I thought he was cute. I was like, young love. And yeah, I think that like he was a really nice addition. This

Kelly (40:05)
Right?

Yeah.

Nikki (40:17)
this like very intense young friendship and you can see that they have this affection and adoration for each other. Yeah, I thought that that was really sweet. And I, yeah, I kind of wish that it focused more on like those aspects and less on the mom and her sister.

Kelly (40:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think the next book features the two daughters as the main characters, I want to say. Yeah, but like, I haven't read it. So I can't tell you what happens with her and her friend. I can't tell you any of that. like, right?

Nikki (40:52)
Okay.

Yeah.

Hopefully something and it doesn't just jump 10 years and it's like, yeah, that guy.

Kelly (41:05)
He was so sweet, whatever his name was.

Nikki (41:08)
Yeah, I can't remember.

Kelly (41:10)
I wish he was in the movie kind of, but then it would have been a whole different movie. But I feel like the movie really wanted to focus on the women, which is fine. And they had big names for, like all the women. So it makes like all the main women, which makes sense. But yeah, it's just like, yes, it's about the women, but it's about other things. So but I get it would be kind of hard to adapt this for a movie.

Nikki (41:13)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kelly (41:40)
You know what mean? Like this is more character building, world building with a small plot. And then the movie is like action thrill, not action thriller, but you know.

Nikki (41:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that, I mean, it's different now in 2024 than it was in 1998. And TV is very different than it was back then. But I think that it would have served better to be some kind of limited series or something.

Kelly (42:01)
huh.

Hmm.

Nikki (42:17)
So maybe they could have kept the daughters the age that they're supposed to be and have them like have a real storyline instead of just being these two kids that are like floating around because they didn't want to get rid of them completely. Yeah.

Kelly (42:29)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because then it could have been more of like a drama, you know, which is if you had to classify this for something like that, I think it would be more of a drama. You know, and also, this is what I was going to say earlier. I was like, I had a thought. I forgot. Okay, the movie, I feel like it's more of a fantasy, right? Urban fantasy, whatever. The book is like magical realism. You know?

Nikki (42:44)
Yeah, I agree.

Right.

Kelly (43:02)
So it's like totally different vibe, totally different style. So yeah, it is kind of like what's going on here. Totally different. So yeah, I feel like. I don't know. It's very odd thinking about the two of them now, like, hmm.

Nikki (43:11)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'm like interested in why the critics didn't like the movie because yeah, it is a cult classic and the fans are a certain subsect of people that saw the movie when it came out obviously really loved it. But I feel also like critically this was not a good movie.

Kelly (43:31)
Let me see.

Yeah.

Mm, mm-hmm.

Nikki (43:49)
I think the deviation from the original plot made it so like it was like somebody read the book and was like, I love this essence, but I actually really hate it. And I'm going to just do something completely different.

Kelly (44:04)
Right? Right? I wonder what Alice Hoffman thought of it. Like, sincerely, what did she think? Because it is very different. And they're making a sequel. Did you hear about that? That's a new, newly announced thing.

Nikki (44:10)
Yeah. Yep.

I don't know.

I think I saw like an interview with Nicole Kidman and she was like, I don't know if this was when it was announced, but people ask her all the time, like, would you want to do this? And she's like, yeah, me and Sandy are on board to do this, whenever people want whatever, like.

Kelly (44:37)
Mmm.

Sandy. Bringin' it back to Grease my God. I don't know anything about it.

Nikki (44:45)
Right? Right? Maybe John Travolta will be in it too. I don't know. Look.

Kelly (44:54)
as like the dead body in the yard or something. Like, I don't know, but no.

Nikki (45:00)
No, Gillian's husband.

Kelly (45:03)
god. No, the magician!

Nikki (45:06)
You

Kelly (45:07)
Okay, here's the quick sentence from Rotten Tomatoes about the critics consensus. Okay, Nikki, here's your answer. Practical magic's jarring tonal shifts sink what little potential its offbeat story may have, though Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock's chemistry makes a strong argument for future collaborations. So they basically liked Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock together as scene partners, but they didn't like, they thought it took away from the original source, I guess.

Nikki (45:13)
Okay.

I agree, the tonal shifts, that's what it is. You get this really nice moment and then they're like, demons. And then you get this other really nice moment and it's like, she's possessed. And you get this other really nice moment and then it's like, insta-love with a cop. And it was like...

Kelly (45:39)
Yeah.

Yep.

Right?

Hahaha

Yeah. Versus in the book, it's like this, it's this like weird feeling that they both have of like, feel like we're meant to be together, but I don't know you. And like something's drawing me to you, but like this can't happen. You know what I mean? That's a totally different vibe than like, I don't know you, but I've been reading your letter over and over every day, which he does do in the book, but he doesn't do it like the same way as the movie, you know?

Nikki (46:09)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Kelly (46:25)
Like, yeah, the movie, it feels insta-love. The book doesn't feel so much because you have both their introspection and like, what is this feeling? What is this feeling? You know? We're all musicals today.

Nikki (46:27)
Yeah.

Mm.

I was going to a different part of that song. What is this feeling so sudden and new? I laid eyes on you.

Kelly (46:46)
I felt the moment I laid eyes on you. We gotta see Wicked together. We have to in the theaters.

Nikki (46:52)
Yeah, well I just like, I need to see it with someone who's gonna understand my feelings. I'm now no longer worried about Ariana Grande, I'm just worried about the product as a whole. Like what is this? Like we all know these people are talented, Cynthia Erivo is talented, Anthony Bridgerton, whatever the hell his real name is, he is talented. Like we get it, you got good people.

Kelly (46:57)
Yes!

know.

Yes. Feeling. yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Nikki (47:21)
But I'm just like really wondering, it looks like a little too bright and shiny for me. I think like that's what the what the trailer is giving. I don't know. I guess we're not here to talk about Wicked, but alas.

Kelly (47:32)
Yeah.

I'm very... well, I'll just say I'm concerned that it's two parts when the musical is already two and a half hours long. Why are we now making it like a five hour story with more songs? That's stupid.

Nikki (47:51)
Hey, that was my thing. They're like, we need more time to tell the story. I'm like, they told the story on Broadway.

Kelly (47:57)
Bitch, you think... Yeah, you think they didn't think, hmm, how do we succinctly tell this story without missing anything important before they fucking created this huge thing?

Nikki (48:05)
Right?

Kelly (48:11)
I'm just saying.

Nikki (48:11)
I don't know. And if they're trying to add things from the book, did you read the book?

Kelly (48:17)
I tried when I was like very little. So I read a bit of it and then I was like, this is dark and very political and not what I wanted to read. It was confusing.

Nikki (48:21)
yeah.

Well, that's the thing, if they want to put stuff from the book into it that is not in the musical, they should just make a wicked movie that's not a musical because the audiences for those two pieces of art are very different. Speaking as someone who loved the musical and then read the book and was like, what is this?

Kelly (48:36)
Yeah.

Yes. Frickin'

Yeah. Fiyero was blue with diamonds on his face. Like I remember that because I was like, huh, he wasn't blue in the musical and they could have made him blue.

Nikki (48:52)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a scene where they have sex and she's talking about his blue hands in her purple pubic hair, like

Kelly (49:07)
Ice planet barbarians.

Nikki (49:08)
Yeah. So... I don't know!

Kelly (49:13)
feel like they didn't make... This is turning into a Wicked. Whatever. It's witches. It's magic. It's related. Practical magic. It's a spectacle. Okay, yeah. We're on topic. Don't come at us. Fiyero, I feel like they didn't make him blue in the musical or the movie, whatever, because then it makes Elphaba's greenness more other. You know what I mean? But...

Nikki (49:18)
Yeah. Boom.

Yeah.

Although they could have made him like a very light blue, like an ambiguous blue. Like is he just really cold or almost dead? I don't know, like, yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (49:44)
Yeah.

Yeah, colorism, colorism. She's dark green, he's light blue, he's popular. I didn't mean to do that.

Nikki (49:53)
Yeah. Yeah. Popular.

Kelly (49:59)
I could just keep going.

Nikki (50:02)
Maybe we shouldn't, but like, do we want to? Yes.

Kelly (50:03)
all right. We should do an episode on Wicked honestly because we're gonna have some things to say. I have always been excited about Ariana and Cynthia but as similar to you I'm scared about the finished overall product. That's what I'm worried about but...

Nikki (50:08)
Yeah.

I'm sure.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I think also the lady who plays, what's her name, Miss Morrible. I can't remember what her name is right now. The lady, she was in, yeah. She sounds the same in everything she's in. And I hate that. And I don't.

Kelly (50:27)
Madam Morrible? Yeah.

Michelle Yeoh or something? Yo? Yeah?

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (50:49)
I don't think it's like an accent thing, because she does like have a little bit of an accent. I don't know though, it sounds more like British, too like British English, but she just has this like way of talking and the inflection that it doesn't matter what she's in. It was the exact same in Haunting in Venice. She sounded exactly the same. Memoirs of a Geisha. Beautiful movie.

Kelly (50:52)
No.

Sure.

Mm. Yeah.

Memoirs of a Geisha. Great movie. Yeah. yeah.

Nikki (51:15)
But I'm just like, that kind of takes me out of the magic when I can then hear her in every other role she's played as she's talking.

Kelly (51:25)
Yeah, yeah, I get that. Because that's what we talking about in our It Ends With Us movie thing, how Blake Lively is always Blake. She's kind of always Michelle. And it's like, okay, but could you like change it up? Because now you're in Wicked where it's like, I mean, she's been in fantastical things, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's like change it up. You're in a fantasy world. Why would you want to be you? I wouldn't. I wouldn't want be me. Be someone else.

Nikki (51:32)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know, but I'm excited and scared. I'm excited to sit in those chairs again because that was a comfy experience.

Kelly (51:54)
I don't know.

Yes. so nice. Our city has finally moved up to other cities.

Nikki (52:08)
Yeah, only took like 10 years.

Kelly (52:10)
my god, I'm fine.

Hey, we finally made it. Going back to this book. And now for some more.

Nikki (52:16)
Yep. Looks like we made it.

Kelly (52:27)
I guess like, my God, I'm falling over. This chair is new, which I love. But anyways, not sponsored. Not gonna mention the chair.

Nikki (52:36)
I keep getting ads for branch speaking of since I asked you where'd you get your chair from and you're like branch and now I get their ads all the time

Kelly (52:39)
really?

Again, not sponsored, so why? I'm gonna say it anyways, because I can't. They're good, I liked it. It was affordable, it arrived really quickly. They're from Toronto, so they shipped to Canada. Really great, free shipping. I even got a coupon for my next order, but I'm like, I'm not gonna order again, I got what I needed. I'm not like a business mogul. So if you're a business mogul, reach out to us, but also go to Branch, I guess. You can get a coupon or something.

Nikki (52:54)
Nice. Yeah? Nice. Love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kelly (53:12)
I'm not sponsored. I know we're talking about this. But anyways, to wrap up our feelings and thoughts on this book. I am excited to read the other books. However, yeah, I guess I just have questions going forward about like, is the tone going to change? I don't know. Like, is the writing style going to change? I don't know. One thing, another thing I wanted to say, I think my last thing about the movie is like,

Nikki (53:32)
Yeah.

Kelly (53:42)
At the beginning of the book and the movie, they talk about their ancestors and how the whole town hates them and all this stuff and they're scared of them. That could have been more in the movie because at the end when they're all together, kumbaya, I don't know, it didn't hit. I think the way they wanted it to hit for me anyways, versus like, like you're saying before, if they made the book into a limited series,

Nikki (54:04)
grade.

Kelly (54:10)
You could really play up on everyone is terrified of the aunts and they don't trust them, but they go to them at night when no one can see them when they're desperate for help. You know what I mean? For help. They go for love potions or whatever. They go to really mess up people's lives really. And the answer like, Hey, if you want to do it, whatever, I can't stop you. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to.

Nikki (54:15)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Give us the money and we'll mess your life up.

Kelly (54:40)
tell you my two cents, but you don't care anyways. I don't care. Great. Here you go. And I, I like I dig that. I thought that was really interesting and kind of like dark, you know, but that wasn't really explored in the movie. I am very curious to hear about more of that in the other books or even in the books that come before this book kind of thing. but yeah, I don't know. Those are my two cents, I guess.

Nikki (54:49)
Yeah.

for sure.

Yeah, I agree. I think my ending thought, I just thought about this while we were talking about Wicked, I have a question of what you think of the last line of the book and the movie that like really iconic, like throw salt over your left shoulder, wash your hands, whatever the fuck they like say.

Kelly (55:12)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, so I have the book right here. there are some things after all that Sally Owens knows for certain. Always throw spilled salt over your left shoulder. Keep rosemary by your garden gate. Add pepper to your mashed potatoes. Plant roses and lavender for luck. Fall in love whenever you can. That's the yeah. Yes, a little yeah.

Nikki (55:49)
Right, that's a little different in the movie, but do you feel like...

Did you feel like that's like a good wrap up? Like, do you like that kind of, I don't even know like what to call it. Do you like that little ending sentence?

Kelly (56:09)
Yeah.

You know?

I kind of do because I think it comes across as a little like, not important, but I think when I think about what it's saying and how the book went, it just makes me feel like it's Sally thinking, you know, maybe it gives her hope and like, it kind of shows that she's renewed her faith in love, in the world and the universe, whatever. it's like,

Nikki (56:39)
Right.

Kelly (56:41)
there's one thing I know for sure. I don't know much, but it's like all these little superstitions, this magic kind of stuff and fall in love whenever you can because you never know. I think it's the whole you never know. So why not? So I kind of do like it. yeah, I thought it was kind of sweet, but yeah, I'm assuming you didn't like it. That's okay. I want to know why. I think it's totally fine. I'm curious.

Nikki (56:49)
Right.

Right.

Nice.

I hate it.

So I think that it was so I was familiar with that before I saw the movie. It's like a very big like audio on TikTok and on online like you hear the little practical magic theme song and you hear Sandra Bullock like saying these things. But I think in terms of the book, like the culmination of all of the other writing that I just felt like so cringed out by.

Kelly (57:15)
Yes, all over TikTok.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (57:35)
to end on that and I was like, like the ultimate cringe. I totally see what you're saying though, like with the, the like message of it. I totally get that. And, but there's just something about it where I felt like Alice Hoffman was writing this and she was like, I'm so good. This is so good.

Kelly (57:38)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Did it feel anti-climactic to you? Is that maybe one of the things?

Nikki (58:07)
Maybe I'm really trying to get away from if books don't end in the way that I like feel like they should. I'm trying to get away from like being judgmental about it. Like, I don't I don't know where to draw the line between I didn't like that so it was bad for me and I didn't like that so it was just not for me.

Kelly (58:09)
Okay.

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Nikki (58:36)
And that's really hard to do when you're reading a book.

Kelly (58:39)
yeah, well, and I think the reason why I was like, was it anticlimactic is because you already knew the lines basically, right? Is what you're saying. Cause yeah, we both know it's everywhere. So, cause what I'm thinking of, and I'm wondering if it's the same thing kind of is I had not seen Dirty Dancing for years, but I knew "Nobody puts Baby in a corner." And when I saw the movie, I was like, so wait, it's not a metaphor. I thought it was a metaphor.

Nikki (58:46)
Right.

Yeah.

Okay. Right.

Kelly (59:07)
It's literally nobody sits Baby in the corner of the room. You know what mean? And so when I saw it, was like, huh, that's what that is. So was it kind of like that?

Nikki (59:12)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I wasn't sure that they were going to put that into the book. Like I was I didn't know that that was how the book actually ended. I had no like it wasn't even a thought that crossed my mind. Like, is this if is this really famous line like something that they actually took from the book? Although they should have left put pepper on your mashed potatoes in the movie, because that's a fact. You should put pepper on them. Butter, salt, and pepper people, let's go.

Kelly (59:29)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Maybe they thought it was too polarizing.

Nikki (59:50)
So I don't know. It was a surprise that it was there, but it was like an unwelcome surprise because I felt like it was really kitschy and like.

Kelly (1:00:02)
Mmm.

Nikki (1:00:07)
But in the movie, like the whole movie was really kitschy.

Kelly (1:00:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (1:00:13)
And like, that's why I feel so conflicted because I'm like, did these feelings of it being cringe come from the fact that the movie was really cringey? And so that was like my expectation going into the book or would I have felt that way about the book anyway. We'll never know.

Kelly (1:00:24)
Hmm.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the book, the book is written in four parts, I think, right? And the first part is called superstition. So I think having it end with those superstitions is like, it's full circle, right? But yeah, I can see what you're saying for sure. Like,

Nikki (1:00:48)
Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. It was a time.

Kelly (1:01:01)
So the four parts, so okay, this is the path from Sally being like, ew, magic, ew, I hate this place, right? To throw salt over your shoulder and put salt and pepper on your mashed potatoes, bitch, okay? So it starts with superstition. This is the path to enlightenment, everyone, okay? I'm gonna say. Superstition, and then it goes to...

premonitions, which did you think of that movie Sandra Bullock is in?

Nikki (1:01:35)
I loved that movie. I left the theater and I was like, I have premonitions. yeah. My mom took me to see it. I was young.

Kelly (1:01:38)
So sad.

You saw in the theater?

I saw that at a friend's house at a sleepover, she rented it and I was like, this is sad, but it was good, it was sad.

Nikki (1:01:57)
I just remember like the birds hitting the window. That was like the Omen 3.

Kelly (1:02:01)
Mm-hmm.

I have not seen that. No thank you.

Nikki (1:02:06)
It was wild. This lady's walking down the road and then all of these birds come and they like peck her eyes out. And then she gets hit by an 18 wheeler.

Kelly (1:02:16)
my god. Okay. So.

Nikki (1:02:19)
That's what it makes me think of, premonition.

Kelly (1:02:22)
We go from superstitions to premonitions to clairvoyance. So now you're seeing things. Right? Premonition is you're seeing things before clairvoyance, you're seeing things and levitation. So it's like self actualization, I guess enlightenment, something like that, maybe.

Nikki (1:02:39)
Yep.

Kelly (1:02:43)
I don't know. I will say, okay, here's, here's a question I have to you to kind of wrap things up, I guess, unless you have other pressing thoughts. No. Okay. So my question to you is, do you think you would ever try a book by Alice Hoffman in the future, like outside of Practical Magic?

Nikki (1:02:46)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

No.

I don't know. I think that if the... if it didn't have anything to do with witches, like, and the synopsis, like, really spoke to me, then yeah. I don't know if I would be able to put, like, my biases aside to read it, though. I think that's my issue. Like,

Kelly (1:03:10)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Nikki (1:03:39)
I'm kind of like if, if like an author burns me once, I'm like, I don't know if I want to do that again.

Kelly (1:03:49)
Yeah, I get that. And I mean, it wasn't like it was like a three or a three and a half. It was like two and a half, two for you. So yeah, I understand that. Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (1:03:55)
Yeah. Yeah. I would, I would maybe like, if it sounded interesting, read it, but like not for this purpose. Like I would read it in a situation where I could just stop reading it if I didn't want to. And I mean, I did mostly listen to the audio book. I think that helped in the situation because even though I wasn't like really vibing with it, I was able to listen to it while I was doing other things.

Kelly (1:04:06)
Yeah.

Yeah. yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (1:04:25)
So it didn't feel like, my God, I just wasted like 12 hours of my life reading this book. It was like, well, I was like driving to school and I was like making food and cleaning. Like I was like doing stuff that was like productive while I was also listening to it. So I did start, I read maybe like the first 15 pages on my Kindle and I was like, dude, I'm never gonna finish this.

Kelly (1:04:25)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki (1:04:54)
if I have to keep reading it.

Kelly (1:04:54)
no!

So was the narrator good? Because I read it in my physical copy. I read the physical copy.

Nikki (1:05:08)
She was fine. It wasn't like really offensive. One thing I appreciated is she didn't do that thing where like audiobook narrators, they like go flat when they're reading the narration part. I hate that. I hate that so much. People love Julia Whelan. Like people like fucking die for this girl. And I'm like, I hate it.

Kelly (1:05:10)
Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

Mmm.

I think I've ever heard any books narrated by her. I know the name, but I don't think I've heard any.

Nikki (1:05:39)
She is like, my gosh, she's like the top of the top for audiobook narrators right now. And it's like, my God, what was that this girl said with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what? You can just say the sentence normally. Like it doesn't, it's not gonna hurt you to put inflection in your voice. Anyway, so she wasn't like that, which I appreciated.

Kelly (1:05:43)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

my gosh. Yeah. Okay.

Nikki (1:06:07)
I say it was like really like wow, like listening to her read it didn't make me like it more. So.

Kelly (1:06:14)
Hmm. Okay. Yeah. So it's more like a means to an end, which we've all been there. Okay. We have all been there.

Nikki (1:06:18)
Yeah.

yeah. We've been there on this podcast.

Kelly (1:06:26)
Yes, we have. We've been there at two and half times speed while reading it to just get out of here. Yeah. Wow.

Nikki (1:06:31)
my god, yes.

I can't believe that we actually finished The City We Became. Speaking of that, yeah.

Kelly (1:06:40)
That's exactly what I was thinking of. Yeah. I was like, do I dare bring it up? Yes. That's, that's an author that I know a lot of people love that I just can't try again after that book, that book.

Nikki (1:06:53)
I literally have the fifth season right there, which Tilly gave me and I am excited to read it. Like she said, she assured me that the fifth season is not like the city we became at all. And I am interested in reading it. Actually, I have two Tilly books here, both of those.

Kelly (1:06:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Well, and Jess, who was on the episode with us too, she is a huge N.K. Jemisin fan as well. And she was also like the fifth season's like one of her best books ever. But I just, I don't think I can try another after that experience. I was like, I hated every part of this. I really did. So I just feel like it's not for me. You do you.

Nikki (1:07:24)
Yep.

I know.

Kelly (1:07:38)
I'm glad she's had a lot of success, like holy crap, she's had a lot of success, but I just, I don't think she's for me. And I'm not a really big sci-fi person anyway, so... Yeah.

Nikki (1:07:42)
Yep.

Yeah, I know. I'm not either. Like, I'm getting a little bit more into it, but there's something about the way that sci-fi authors tend to write in this, very dry, I don't know, like, descriptive manner that I'm, like, I'm sleepy.

Kelly (1:07:59)
Yes, like cold.

Yeah, I find like a lot of when I would at least the stuff I've read for sci fi is what you're saying. It's like the narrator is outside of the story and they're telling you what's going on. But it's not it feels kind of cold to me and like

Nikki (1:08:20)
It's like they're reading an instruction manual.

Kelly (1:08:25)
Yeah. And if I wanted to do that, I would just try to build something from IKEA. Except, wait, there's no words. Oh my god.

Nikki (1:08:27)
Yeah.

Kelly (1:08:36)
I, we're gonna, with this episode's ever, all over the place, I don't care. Could you put one sentence or provide something online, digital, with sentences? I know you're trying to make it accessible for all cultures, all languages. I can't read your pictures, okay? This brain does not compute those pictures. I need words with it, okay?

Nikki (1:08:36)
Just frustration.

Yep.

Yeah, it took you like two days to build your bed. Three days.

Kelly (1:09:04)
I mean, that was a very big, my dog, that was a huge bed with like all sorts of things. It wasn't just like a platform. It was like drawers shelving with the headboard that goes in the wall, not on the bed. So much stuff. Holy crap. We love the bed now. We love it. Highly recommend, but like, holy God. Bless you.

Nikki (1:09:16)
Yeah.

yeah.

Yeah.

I get it. I had one of the IKEA beds that had the like hydraulic lift and I was moving into this very tiny apartment in Toronto. My mom and I had to take the doors off of the closet because you couldn't open them all the way with the bed in the room. And it took us so long and we were so mad at each other and like it was awful.

Kelly (1:09:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, it probably took us, it probably took us like 12 to 15 hours to build that bed. And I'm not exaggerating. Like over two days, we just spent like half the day, two days in a row, trying to put this thing together.

Nikki (1:10:03)
I love that bed, but it was awful.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah, miserable.

Kelly (1:10:21)
Yeah, if I'd had some frickin magic, maybe I could have done it quicker, but.

Nikki (1:10:26)
Maybe.

Kelly (1:10:30)
With that, I will say goodbye so that we don't go down more rabbit holes that I would love to go down, but you guys have things to do, I'm sure. So we'll keep that for another episode. Yeah. Which we do have one coming up that is so in line with this that I cannot wait to record. Like it's going to be so fun. It's going to be amazing. So with that.

Nikki (1:10:40)
for another episode.

Yeah, it's gonna be good.

Kelly (1:10:53)
Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of BYOB. If you want to keep up to date on all of our bookish antics off air, you can follow us on Instagram at BYOBOOKpodcast or on TikTok at bringyourownbookpodcast. And remember, throw salt that spilled over your left shoulder. See you next time. Bye.