Interview with "Amari and the Night Brothers" Author B.B. Alston

In today's special episode, we’re sitting down with #1 New York Times Bestselling author, B.B. Alston, to discuss his latest book, Amari and the Despicable Wonders- the third book in the Supernatural Investigations series!

In this episode of BYOB, Kelly and Nikki chat with New York Times bestselling author B.B. Alston about his journey as a writer, the inspiration behind his debut novel, 'Amari and the Night Brothers', and the themes of empowerment and discrimination highlighted in his work. B.B. shares insights into his writing process, the pressure of success, and the importance of representation in children's literature. They also talk about the upcoming movie adaptation and what lies in store for Amari in the next two books.
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War has come to the supernatural world, and Amari’s two worst enemies are leading the charge.

Elaine Harlowe has manipulated her way into becoming prime minister, using her mind control ability to force the Bureau to take up her vicious grudge against magiciankind. Meanwhile, Dylan Van Helsing, the newly crowned leader of the League of Magicians—and Amari’s former partner—is after a destructive new power that would not only ensure the magicians’ victory . . . it would make him invincible.

With neither the Bureau nor the League safe for Amari, and her newly returned brother, Quinton, determined to keep her out of the fray, she and her friends decide to find a way to end the war on their own.

So when they learn that the only way to stop Dylan is to find powerful magical inventions known as Wonders, they go after them. But wielding these items comes at a terrible cost, and Amari will have to decide just how much she’s willing to sacrifice . . . because the Despicable Wonders will demand everything.
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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Background of B.B. Alston
• 1:05 Handling the Pressure of Writing a Successful Series
• 2:02 Pantsing vs Plotting
• 3:13 The Writing Journey and Overcoming Rejection
• 9:54 Balancing Scary and Intense Moments in Middle-Grade Fiction
• 15:52 The Excitement of the Upcoming Movie Adaptation
• 19:14 Potential Future Locations and Storylines
• 20:16 Beginning of Spoiler Section
• 21:59 Emotional Reactions to the Characters and Events
• 30:11 The Future of the 'Amari and the Night Brothers' Series
• 34:35 BB Alston's Unconventional Writing Process
• 42:24 Representation and Empowerment for Young Girls
• 45:25 Final Thoughts & Book 4 Teaser

Transcript

Kelly (00:11)
Hey everyone, welcome to BYOB, the Bring Your Own Book podcast. I'm Kelly.

Nikki (00:16)
and I'm Nikki.

Kelly (00:18)
And today we are so excited to be joined by our special guest, New York Times bestselling author, B .B. Alston. B .B. Alston lives in Lexington, South Carolina. His debut middle grade novel, Amari and the Night Brothers has been published in 27 countries and is an international bestseller. In the United States, the book has spent more than 30 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. And in 2021, the book was named the overall winner of the Barnes and Noble Children's and YA Book Awards.

His latest novel, Amari and the Despicable Wonders, is the third installment in the Supernatural Investigation series and is now available in Canada, the US, and the UK, wherever books are sold. Thank you so much for joining us today, BB.

BB Alston (01:03)
Hey, I'm happy to be here.

Kelly (01:05)
We are so excited to have you. You are our first middle grade author that we've gotten to talk to, which is so exciting because yeah, we love to read all ages of fiction. So we are happy to chat about Amari today. my God. With Amari and the Night Brothers and its sequel Amari and the Great Game being as successful as they were, how did you handle the pressure of writing this latest adventure?

BB Alston (01:11)
Okay.

Okay, sounds good.

Well, you know, I won't lie and say there wasn't some pressure, because the first book hit the best seller list and then the second book hit number one. And so there was a pressure, especially from you're publisher, to keep it going. But I got some really good advice one day that most you can control is how good of a book you write. And so you just write the best book you can. And then everything else is kind of out of your control. So I've kind of tried to keep that in mind. And hopefully, the readers will keep coming on the journey  with me.

Kelly (01:37)
You

Nikki (02:02)
So we're wondering, we ask all of our authors that come on here this because we're really interested in the writing process. Are you a pantser or a plotter? And do you have an overarching plan for the series or are you just trying to focus on one book at a time?

BB Alston (02:19)
So I started off as a pantser and I love being a pantser, but when you have deadlines, deadlines make pantser really hard. And so like the first book I had like five years, so I could just like pick it up. If I took a thread and it went nowhere, it didn't mean anything. Nobody was waiting for the book, so it didn't mean anything. But now that I have deadlines, I have to sit down and make an outline, which I hate doing, but it does keep the story on track for me. Yeah, so yeah, I'm a...

I'm a plotter but I'm forced to do so.

Kelly (02:52)
my gosh. That's pretty brave. Pretty brave to be a pantser. my gosh. I feel like I'm I'm flying on the seat of my pants reading these books sometimes. We're going to get to that later because yeah. Yes.

Nikki (03:06)
We have feelings, like so many feelings.

BB Alston (03:08)
Okay.

Kelly (03:13)
So you did mention just now that it took you or you spent about five years writing Amari and the Night Brothers. And we did hear a little bit about your journey to becoming an internationally bestselling author and how incredible that story is in and of itself. So we read the Cliffs Notes preparing for this interview, but we would love to hear you tell it to us and share it with our listeners because it is truly wild and incredible. Yeah.

BB Alston (03:20)
Mm

Yeah, so I had pretty much given up on writing. Like, if you're doing any kind of creative thing, you know that there's no's everywhere, all kind of rejection. So I got years and years of no's and not quite. sometimes you don't get a response at all. And so I had thought, you know, maybe my time had passed. I tried my best. I gave it, I gave it some years. It didn't happen for me. So I kind of turned my focus to another dream, which was to become a doctor. So I actually got accepted to be in biomedical science program at a medical school.

which is kind of like a feeder program where you pass that and then you get advanced to the medical school if you do well enough. And so I was getting ready to go there. It just so happened that I was waiting on some paperwork and I look on Twitter and there's a pitch contest and like, know, agents are looking for books. I mean, I got a book, I figured I'd just send it off, know, not thinking anything of it I remember looking at my wife and said, this is probably worth nothing, but I'm just gonna do it anyway and see what happens. And then my agent found me there and then that turned into a 30.

Sold in 30 countries now, think, thirty-something countries. We had a movie deal, the book went to auction here in the United States and it's kind of off to the races since then. So it's pretty kind of like a movie in itself. Kind of crazy.

Kelly (04:48)
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Like, Nikki and I are both, we originally came from the theater world. And so we have a lot of, we have a lot of experience in the arts and no's and so, but that's just, it's just so refreshing to hear about someone who, you know, you were about to give up, you were like, I've had it, I can't keep putting myself through this. But then you felt like, you know what, why not? I'm to give it one more little go and then look what happened. You know, it's just wild.

BB Alston (04:55)
nice.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm

yeah. Yeah, that's really... It's pretty crazy, absolutely. It can be really discouraging, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Nikki (05:20)
Yeah, good things happen when you take the pressure off yourself. I feel like a lot that happens to a lot of people, they decide, you know, whatever, it doesn't mean anything anymore. And then something great happens to them. So

Kelly (05:23)
Yeah.

That's true.

BB Alston (05:34)
Yeah, absolutely.

Kelly (05:35)
Yeah, I had a teacher once in theater school who said, you'll never get the part if you really want it. You have to not want it. And I'm like, well, you know, like, okay. So and now I'm here.

Nikki (05:54)
So we just did this, the first three books this past month. And so we have been like thrust into the world of Amari and the other world and everything. And so we would love if you could tell us a little bit about what inspired you to write Amari and the Night Brothers. What was that like first inkling that you got for this story and these characters?

BB Alston (06:06)
wow, that's awesome.

It really started off me watching Men in Black and just thinking like, you what if it wasn't just aliens? What if it was like all the things that we consider myths and legend? Like, how would that be different? How would the agency be different? Like, what kind of department would you need? And then what if you threw a kid into all that? Like, how crazy would that be? How fun would that be? And that's kind of the origin of the story. then one day, that was during a time when I was studying for med school, so I was decidedly not trying to write. And then one day, Amari popped into

Kelly (06:24)
Mmm.

BB Alston (06:47)
my head and I said, well, let me just, let me just see where this goes. That's kind of how Amari got started. Yeah.

Kelly (06:53)
cool. And so was it always in your mind a middle grade novel or did you like toy with the idea of it being young adult or adult or

BB Alston (07:02)
It was always, because Amari popped into my head as a kid, I figured it was gonna be a kid's book. And so yeah, I just kind of stuck with it since then.

Kelly (07:07)
Okay.

Okay, cool.

Nikki (07:12)
Is there a character in the book that you feel the closest to or that you're like the most similar to in real life?

BB Alston (07:20)
Probably Amari, just because a lot of her struggles were my struggles. I had lot of the same thoughts that she had. I was kind of a kid from modest means. She goes to you know, the Bureau of Supernatural Affairs camp. I went to like a science camp on the other side of town. And I was the poor kid who didn't have as much. You know, I drive by those houses like, wow, those are like mansions and it was so cool, right? And I kind of felt less than. I didn't feel like I was as good as the other kids. And it took me a while to kind of like find my voice and get my self confidence. And that's a lot of what Amari goes through too.

And so I'll definitely have to say Amari. Me for Amari, yeah.

Kelly (07:54)
Okay.

I think it's just so it's so powerful when you can take some of your own experiences and share them with others and hopefully help others who are currently going through it now. I think that's great. Honestly. sorry.

BB Alston (08:04)
I'm sorry. I was gonna say, I get a lot of emails and letters and messages from kids. yeah, I was in this similar situation. I kind of felt like I was like, I get out and then seeing Amari go through it helped me go through it. So that's really gratifying for sure. Yeah.

Nikki (08:27)
Yeah.

Kelly (08:27)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I bet. Just going off of that, I'm going to like jump around a bit, Nikki, sorry. But since we're already in the in the area of this, at the very beginning of the first book, Amari and the Night Brothers, Amari is being discriminated against at her school for being Black and being a scholarship kid. When she becomes awakened, if for lack of better term, awakened to the supernatural world, she once again faces discrimination and prejudice because she's a magician.

Nikki (08:33)
Yeah.

BB Alston (08:39)
Mm

Kelly (08:53)
In one world, she feels powerless, while in the other, she has an incredible amount of power and responsibility basically given to her. What does it mean to you to write for children who are in a similar situation to Amari and also Jayden, who Amari helps give a second chance to in a way?

BB Alston (09:11)
Yeah, think I I think I really like I feel like it felt the most authentic to write like that. And I want to kind of mirror that idea of being an 'other'. I think it's easy to be a 'other' when when you don't like the kids around you. Or you think differently, or you don't have the same things they have. I think it's easy to consider yourself an other. And I think just kind of showing, you know, the effects of other from both sides, whether you're the one who's other or what somebody else is, how you how you treat somebody who thinks differently.

or feels different from you or looks different from you. And I think that's a really good lesson for kids to see and then learn. so I hope that resonates. I hope that comes through in the story for sure. Yeah.

Kelly (09:50)
definitely, yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (09:54)
So there are a lot of moments in the series, and especially in this book, that had us, who are adults, stressed out. The sightless depths were scary. We were talking about it last night. I was like, I feel like I was sweating through that whole passage and being like, run, go faster. Like I felt like I was.

BB Alston (10:03)
Yeah

Kelly (10:04)
Yes!

Yeah.

Nikki (10:19)
on like literally running down these dark halls with them and like things were grabbing for me. I was tense and I wanted them to get the heck out of there but I also didn't want to leave yet because it was really cool. And how do you create moments like that without worrying about them being too scary or too intense for younger audiences? Like what's the balance look like for you because obviously what would scare you as an adult

BB Alston (10:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Hehehehehe

Nikki (10:47)
is maybe more than what would scare a 12 year old. How do you rein that in for your audience?

BB Alston (10:48)
Mm

think I try to make it as scary as possible, but I also try to balance it with like humor and then also kind of like have the heart of the, have the kind of heart kind of come through too. So man, they're in a super scary situation, but you kind of see how much they're fighting for each other in that moment, right? And I think that kind of gives you, gives the reader a little bit of a sense of that it's going to be okay, even though it looks like, even though it looks horrible.

and it's scary, I want you to have a sense of like, it's still gonna be okay, like you can see them fighting for each other, you see how much they care about themselves in their moment. And I like to kind of alleviate it with something funny, you know, just to kind of lighten it at that point. So that's how I try to do that.

Kelly (11:33)
See, it's funny that you say, I make you feel like you're going to be okay. I didn't feel they were going to be okay. I was so scared. Okay. I was like, I was, I can't, I don't even want to say it because we're not getting into spoilers yet. So, but there were times where I was like, something is going to happen and I'm not okay with this. my God.

BB Alston (11:38)
Okay.

Nikki (11:51)
Yeah, yeah. There were a couple moments in this book where I was very worried about specific characters and I was like this like nothing's gonna be okay ever again.

BB Alston (12:01)
That's awesome.

Kelly (12:01)
Yes.

No!

BB Alston (12:10)
You

Kelly (12:10)
He's not really a reader and so he will like play a video game while I'm reading on the couch beside him and he'll hear me gasping and going my god and he's like what? It's my book! You know like stop! And so like I'll try to explain like they're here and they're stuck underground and there's a candle and he's like okay like but I'm like this is middle grade like why am I so stressed?

BB Alston (12:26)
That's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Kelly (12:35)
So it worked and I didn't know they were going to be okay. So congrats, but also yeah, my nerves.

BB Alston (12:44)
That's awesome.

On the one hand I'm glad but I am sad a little bit too.

Kelly (12:53)
I'm gonna backpedal a bit to the very first book, okay? And I want to know, this is a silly question, but I think it's important still. If you had the chance to touch the crystal ball and receive your supernatural power, what do you think it would be? Because we know from what you've told us that it kind of like enhances what you already have, which I love. So what do you think yours would be?

BB Alston (12:55)
That's awesome. Okay.

Okay.

Mm

Mm

You know what, I've got this question a lot from kids and I think because I read so much, I would love to able to touch a book and just know everything inside the book. I that would be cool, like automatic reading. Like you just touch a book and it's read, it's done. I think that would be the coolest thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (13:37)
my God. Would you still Right? would you, if you touch the book, see now I'm getting into further in, if you touch the book and you get, you've read it all, do you still get like the emotional journey, but just like instant, instantaneously or like?

Nikki (13:39)
love that. Who wouldn't want that?

BB Alston (13:53)
Yeah, I think that'd be cool. Like, you just go through all the emotions that once and then it's over. I think that'd be pretty cool, I don't know. In my head it works, I don't know. Maybe in practice, maybe in real, in practice it wouldn't work. But in my head it works, I don't know.

Kelly (14:05)
I mean, I think I would need a lot of time to like sit and like, like breathe after, but it would be invigorating.

BB Alston (14:08)
You

That would be a lot of emotions at once I guess. Maybe that would be a bit much.

Kelly (14:18)
Right? That's okay. Hey, that's okay. Do you know what you would be, Nikki? What power you would get?

Nikki (14:26)
thought about this a lot last night and I feel like I'm very good under pressure so I feel like that would translate to like super decision making like things have to happen really quickly and I will just know like all of the options and like what like practically or statistically would be the best one to choose like I feel like that would be good in like an agent situation

BB Alston (14:38)
Now it's cool.

That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, that's really cool. All right, I might have to put that in book four. That's really cool. I might steal that from you. That's really cool.

Kelly (14:49)
Ooh.

I'm sticking with you. Yeah. You can make my decisions for me.

Nikki (14:54)
Yeah.

Go ahead.

Kelly (15:04)
There's a character named Nikki who's just like, have all the decisions. I love it.

BB Alston (15:08)
Yeah, alright. That would be awesome.

Nikki (15:08)
Yeah.

Kelly (15:13)
you

Nikki (15:13)
What about you, Kelly?

Kelly (15:15)
I feel like, okay, I always joke with Nikki that I'm not judgmental, I'm intuitive. So I think it would just like heighten my intuition. I would be like, not like, I guess, yeah, would tell the future, I guess. I would be prophetic, intuition heightened. Yeah, I feel like it'd be stressful, but helpful.

BB Alston (15:23)
Okay.

That would be cool. That would be really cool. Yeah, probably a little stressful, yeah.

Nikki (15:38)
Yes.

Kelly (15:40)
But with great power comes great responsibility, right? Spider -Man, I think.

BB Alston (15:44)
There you go. Absolutely. There you go. Yeah. That would be pretty cool.

Nikki (15:46)
Yeah, very true.

Kelly (15:52)
Right?

Nikki (15:52)
So a little birdie told us that a movie adaptation is on the way. You mentioned that earlier as well. And so how surreal is it to hear that a major studio wants to adapt your work? And can you give us any info as to like what's going on, like where things are at in the process?

BB Alston (15:59)
Mm

man, it's the most crazy feeling that like to speak to like movie producers and I got to talk to Don Cheadle, which was crazy. And yeah, so that was really cool. yes, I mean, honestly the whole journey has been kind of like surreal. And so this is like surreal times 10, like this one on a mountain of surreal. so right now we've gotten really, really close to making an announcement and then something gets delayed or pushed aside. So this is gonna be a big year for us. I'm hoping to have something by the end of the year, like really concrete.

So that's the hope right now, as far as if nothing changes again, we'll see. Yeah.

Kelly (16:49)
Okay. And do you know, like, can you tell us about your involvement with the film? Like, are you going to be there actively, like, as a screenwriter or producer or like, what role are you going to play in the film? Or cameo?

Nikki (16:50)
my gosh.

BB Alston (17:04)
So right now I'm an executive producer. I'd love a cameo. We hadn't talked about a cameo yet, but I feel like most authors get like a little cameo, right? Like a little like they walk across the screen, and they say like, hello, and then you never see them again. I think that'd be pretty cool. Just have me in the background. So right now I'm an executive producer. I didn't want to write the script because I feel like it's like a totally different like skill set. But I have some friends who do write screen plays.

Kelly (17:17)
Yeah, why not?

BB Alston (17:34)
But yeah, I read them and we talk about it and that kind of thing. I mean, ultimately it's kind of that they're putting the money up so they kind of decide what to But right now, they seem like they have the same vision I have. So I'm hoping that continues. Yeah.

Kelly (17:49)
That's great, yeah.

Nikki (17:49)
that's so awesome. I was telling Kelly, I feel like I have to say this now because I was telling Kelly last night about how I envision the characters. And the with like Magnus specifically, like I have this like picture of him in my mind, because he has like the cowboy hat and the beard. But in my head, depending on which scene

Kelly (17:53)
Hopefully,

BB Alston (18:14)
Mm

Nikki (18:17)
it is and like what vibe he's giving off. I'm alternately, these are two very different visions, picturing him as Terry Crews or Woody Harrelson.

BB Alston (18:24)
No.

Okay. Yeah, that'd be cool. It's really different though, yeah.

Nikki (18:32)
like two very different portrayals of a character but depending on what his demeanor is in the scene I would like alternate between like who I was like picturing being him.

BB Alston (18:45)
Yeah, that would be really cool. Yeah. That would be awesome. I really like Woody Harrelson. He's kind of a quirky actor. I really like him. He's pretty cool. Yeah.

Nikki (18:54)
Right?

Kelly (18:54)
Right? I think both, I mean, I don't think either of them are listening, but if you are listening, it's in your wheelhouse, both of you. So let's go. B.B. will take your proposals. Yeah.

BB Alston (19:00)
Alright, there you go, yep, there you go, yep. Absolutely.

Nikki (19:03)
Yeah.

Kelly (19:14)
I am actually so curious about the next book, obviously, but like, we're gonna get to spoilers in a second. But I just had a thought about right now we're set in Atlanta. And I'm super curious as to whether we will potentially see another city with like a different supernatural bureau. Maybe in the future, like maybe we go to Lexington, South Carolina, or maybe we go to Alaska or like, are we

BB Alston (19:22)
Okay.

Mm

No.

Kelly (19:43)
Do you see any of that in the future maybe of like traveling the globe a little bit?

BB Alston (19:47)
Yeah, so, well, we can't talk about spoilers. I'm not sure how much they'll reveal, but the next book will probably have different locations. There's a reason for it to be in a different location. I don't know. Hope that's not spoiled or anything. Okay, I'm always terrible with spoilers. Because I forget what's a spoiler and what's not a spoiler, and then someone's like, no, I'm like, Yeah.

Kelly (19:54)
You

Okay!

no, yeah.

Nikki (20:04)
Well...

Kelly (20:09)
That's okay.

right?

Nikki (20:16)
will say this episode is going to come out later in September. we will have like people will have had time to read the book. And so I don't know if we want to hop in to spoilers now and we can talk about a bit of the events of this book because how do we not? It's very it's very hard to be vague because I just want to be like, my goodness.

BB Alston (20:20)
Okay.

Okay.

Kelly (20:25)
Yes.

Yes. Yes.

BB Alston (20:33)
Okay.

Hehehehehe

Kelly (20:40)
Yeah.

Nikki (20:43)
when Elsie's fire goes out in the Sightless Depths and I was like, if she dies, I'm going to die.

BB Alston (20:46)
Yeah.

You

Kelly (20:53)
That's when he was like you said to us. I knew you know everyone's gonna be okay. I feel like I put that in there I Was like Elsie's about to die. Yeah

BB Alston (20:57)
hahahaha

Nikki (21:00)
I didn't know.

BB Alston (21:02)
You know what's so funny? I laughed when I did that, when I wrote that. I was so bad about that. I can picture myself reading it and being like, y'know, when they had the candle, when the candle goes out, I had a thought like, well, they have another source of fire. Elsie's right there. So was like, well, let me have her do it. And I was like, well, she has to run out of breath eventually, though. And then I was like, what if just goes out in the middle of this? Let's just see what happens. It's a lot of fun to write that kind of scene when you're writing it, but I can imagine being on the other

side of it. I can imagine that might not be as fun.

Ha ha ha ha!

Nikki (21:39)
It was a journey.

BB Alston (21:41)
Yeah

Kelly (21:42)
Yeah, in my brain, I was like, Elsie can relight the candle, not duh, Kelly. She can just like shoot off big flames, not like, I'm like, she'll just relight it.

BB Alston (21:50)
Yeah

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. that was fun.

Kelly (21:59)
But it was just like that part and also Dylan, I don't know what it is about Dylan. I feel so angry about him, but I'm also so sad because like I feel like most of the time in books where we have a villain who we thought was gonna be a good guy or friend at the beginning. I'm always like, how dare you, you know, but this time I kind of feel with Amari like, you know, I want her

BB Alston (22:10)
Mm -hmm.

Mm

Kelly (22:28)
and him to like be friends again. I want him to somehow get out of the grasp of the crown and all like the foul magic, but I don't know if it is attainable because this guy, like he's so OP, he's so overpowered that added to my stress reading this book because I'm like, what the heck? We've got Agent Harlow who is psycho, you know? We've got Dylan, like.

BB Alston (22:36)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (22:58)
just my god so I don't know if there's a question in there I'm just I have a lot of feelings okay

Nikki (23:07)
We don't have lot of opportunity to tell our feelings to the person responsible for them. like...

Kelly (23:08)
You

BB Alston (23:12)
I understand. Okay. Okay.

Nikki (23:16)
This is cathartic for us.

Kelly (23:18)
And like I was so I was so excited to see Merlin there and When we found out he's the prime minister. I was like, of course he is, you know, and then no he's not and in comes Bane and Harlow like I I feel like we haven't seen the last of Harlow because If I'm not mistaken she did get away at the end Correct

BB Alston (23:25)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

No, no, she got arrested at the end. When they go to the, when they show back up at the bureau, like, Harlow's sitting right there with Magnus right before that last scene. She's like right there, because she's been captured, so yeah. But it would be fun to bring her back, though. That's okay, I'll figure out a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (23:48)
okay.

Yeah.

yes. Okay.

Nikki (24:00)
Right, they had her power under lock again so she couldn't control anybody. Ooh.

Kelly (24:05)
Yes.

I was probably too upset about Magnus to remember that Harlow is captured. Nikki.

BB Alston (24:12)
no!

Nikki (24:16)
So I finished the book a couple days before Kelly did and I sent her this voice message of me being like, I'm not gonna tell you what happens, but I'm just telling you that I'm crying right now. And like, you made me feel so safe. Lara was, she got better. Elsie didn't die. And then...

BB Alston (24:19)
You

-huh.

no. Yeah.

Nikki (24:43)
Magnus had to be like the best guy ever and save Amari, which like obviously she's the main character, she deserves to be saved, I'm that's totally fine, but like could somebody who was like less important to me have saved her? Because him grabbing the thing and just being like, it's okay, you don't have to, and her being like, all right, and I was like, no

Kelly (24:46)
No.

BB Alston (24:46)
Yeah... Yeah...

Hahaha!

You

You know what's funny about that? actually...

Kelly (25:08)
Yeah.

BB Alston (25:08)
Yeah.

Yeah. You know what's playing with it? I actually chickened out one time. I'm you know what? What I don't kill anybody by the end? My editor was like, no, no, no, no. You would ruin the book if you do that. So I'm like, OK, I'll keep it in. I did chicken out. Even I felt bad. I was like, oh not Magnus But I feel like if you out here, if you call it a war, have to like, somebody has to die in a war, right? Otherwise, it's not really a war, right? So I don't know. That was my thinking going into it. Yeah.

Nikki (25:34)
I know.

Kelly (25:35)
That's fair. That's true. You know, as much as I...

BB Alston (25:41)
Cause if you call it a war and everybody survives it's like, was it a war? I don't know.

Kelly (25:45)
Yeah, I hate to agree with you, but I do because I have read those books where it's like, we're at an all out war and nothing happens. And I'm like, okay, like, yeah. did you, I'm curious to know, did you base any of the characters off of people you know in real life? Like, is there a real Magnus who should be feeling a certain kind of way in real life?

BB Alston (25:50)
Yeah.

Yeah, everybody just fine.

You know what, a lot of my characters just come up, come up as like, they just kind of like pop into my head, where it's like a need. Like Magnus, I just thought, where did I get Magnus from? I think, I can't remember exactly. I think I was watching something and there was a guy, I can't remember the actor. And I just thought Magnus. I don't know, it just kind of happened, I don't know. So he was just kind of like, and like.

Kelly (26:33)
That's so cool.

BB Alston (26:34)
Even with Dylan, Dylan, on the first draft of the first book, he wasn't even in the book. There was no Dylan. And then I got to the end of the book. Yeah, I got to the end of the book and I was just like, there's always a scene at the end where the good guys gather together and they go rush out to fight the bad guy. And I just thought, what if one of the friends was the bad guy? And that's kinda- I decided go back to the beginning of the book and then put Dylan in the book until we got to the end. And that's how Dylan came about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Kelly (26:40)
Really?

Nikki (27:00)
Wow, I can't even imagine the book without him.

Kelly (27:00)
that's really interesting. Yeah. my God. Yeah, I'm like, because that that reveal was so like, disheartening to me, not disheartening. was shocked because I was like, he earlier on, he was kind of nasty to her. But then they grew together as friends. And I was like, OK, he's he's not going to be like his dad. And then, nope, he is worse than his dad. So.

BB Alston (27:03)
Yeah, right?

Hehehehehe

Mm

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.

Nikki (27:29)
See, I was really suspicious about Dylan. I was like, he's shady. He's doing some like, he is like two -faced. He's doing some like, girl stuff. Like, you know, like the traditional mean girl thing where they're like, they're really nice to you alone and then they get around their friends and they're like, who are you? And so I was like, what is his deal? And then when we found out what it was, I was like, I knew it.

Kelly (27:36)
You

BB Alston (27:36)
Yeah.

Kelly (27:47)
Yes.

BB Alston (27:51)
Hahaha

Kelly (27:52)
Yeah.

BB Alston (27:55)
Yeah, I think I get I it's either they had no idea it was coming or they're like I had a feeling  the whole time

Kelly (28:10)
Luckily for us, we both had the different perspectives because I was like, I was beside myself. But I also, sorry, go ahead. I'm going to bring it back. I'm going to bring it back to Magnus because Nikki and I were talking and I was like, wait a second, trying to get out of my emotional feelings. I was like, wait a second.

BB Alston (28:13)
Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Nikki (28:14)
Yes.

BB Alston (28:19)
man, but...

I go ahead, go ahead. I can't remember what I was gonna say anyway.

you

Kelly (28:39)
We learned through this book that people can come back as ghosts. Could Magnus come back and be with Fiona and maybe have a wedding with a not really a human but supernatural being and a ghost or just come back?

BB Alston (28:44)
Mm -hmm. Let's do it.

you

You totally could, but they do have to wait seven years before can apply for a ghost . So it is gonna be like a while. So yeah, you can't like immediately come back. yeah. Yeah. You gotta file your applications. There's still a whole process. Yeah.

Kelly (29:06)
So there's even red tape in the afterlife, yeah.

Nikki (29:15)
It's giving the waiting room in Beetlejuice when they're all waiting to talk to their counselors about their options.

Kelly (29:15)
Ugh.

BB Alston (29:19)
You

Are you guys watching the little blue cheese when it comes out? Yeah.

Nikki (29:30)
yeah.

Kelly (29:31)
I haven't seen it yet. I have to rewatch the original because I think I only saw it once when I was a little kid. Yeah, so I need a refresher.

BB Alston (29:37)
Okay. Okay. Cool. Awesome, awesome. Awesome, awesome. That's cool.

Nikki (29:39)
I'm a huge Beetlejuice fan, so I'm so excited for the new one.

Kelly (29:46)
We always joke that Nikki's like the darker gothic version and that I'm like the pastel like bubbly version. Because we're like two sides of the same coin. We have birthdays right before each other like Libras. We love a of the same things. Yeah. So I got to catch up on Beetlejuice.

BB Alston (29:51)
Mm.

Hahahaha

that's so cool! That's so cool!

Nikki (30:05)
Yeah.

BB Alston (30:08)
That's awesome, that's awesome.

Nikki (30:11)
So we have to ask the ending of the book. So you got a contract to do more books in the series. Did you know that more books would be coming as you were finishing this book? Or did you finish this book thinking it was going to be the end? And then you got the news.

Kelly (30:14)
Mm -hmm.

BB Alston (30:23)
Mm

Kelly (30:24)
Hmm.

BB Alston (30:33)
no, so we actually got the two books as I was writing this book. So I got a chance to kind of like, okay, I know I got two more books to kind of play around with, yeah. So yeah, definitely, yeah. I wouldn't have ended it like that. I wouldn't have ended it like that if it was the three books.

Nikki (30:40)
Okay.

Okay.

good. We were wondering because I was like

That's what I was - I said to Kelly, like, if that was how he was just gonna end that trilogy, that was like a slap in the face. Who does that? I was like, my goodness.

BB Alston (30:56)
Yeah, I would have done that. I'm not that cruel.

Kelly (30:58)
Yeah!

BB Alston (31:06)
That would be pretty mean.

Kelly (31:08)
like yeah like I mean you want to talk about cliffhangers we're in spoiler territory so this is fine everyone but like Amari's like I'm not doing this anymore I'm giving up I'm leaving the bureau never gonna do this again I'm like what you know like there's things to do so yeah like if I wasn't in the know and know you have two more books I'd be like what

BB Alston (31:12)
Mm

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Nikki (31:28)
I know, cause -

BB Alston (31:31)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (31:33)
When Fiona says, just like give it some time and just think about it. And then Amari's like, but we both know that I've already made up my mind. And I was like, have you? Have you really? Miss Magic just came back?

BB Alston (31:43)
Yeah. No, no way. She's gonna get pulled back in. way. She's gonna find herself pulled back in. And somewhere different. So that'd be cool. That'd be kind of fun. Yeah.

Kelly (31:57)
Yes.

Nikki (31:57)
Yes, my god cuz Elsie is going to Oxford

BB Alston (32:03)
Yeah, yeah.

Kelly (32:03)
Mm -hmm. Does she is she still planning on going with everything that happened? She's still planning on going Yeah

Nikki (32:04)
That's so exciting.

BB Alston (32:10)
So she'll be an Oxford during the school year and then when camp starts next summer, that's when she'll come back to the bureau. Yeah.

Kelly (32:16)
Okay. Okay. Cause I was like, God. Okay. Okay. my God. Yeah. Okay. All hope is not lost. I'm like, but I'm very interested now because you teased earlier that we're going to be going maybe to some other places. So can we learn of any of the other places? Should I pack a hat? Should I, you know, like what's going on? Yeah.

BB Alston (32:36)
Mm -hmm.

Nikki (32:43)
umbrella possibly, it's very rainy there.

BB Alston (32:43)
What I'm su -

I'm still writing it so, I'm still trying to decide where exactly it's gonna be. It could be a couple different locations, but it'll definitely be different from Atlanta. it'll be like, it'll be, yeah, it'll be new characters and some of the old characters too, but it'll be new characters. I think it'll be like a nice little refresher kind of thing. I think it'd be pretty cool. Yeah.

Kelly (32:53)
Okay.

Nikki (32:54)
That's so exciting.

Yes, my gosh. You have like, I don't know if you've thought about this, but you have like the opportunity, you know how people call like all of the Sarah J. Maas books, like the Maas verse, because they happen in like the same kind of like world, but they're different people. Like you have such a cool opportunity to like maybe a kid like

Kelly (33:06)
my gosh.

BB Alston (33:20)
Mm

Thank you.

Nikki (33:30)
have a spinoff series and the kid goes to the London bureau or whatever like I would I just want I want all of the stories I want like Amari to have like a good like series and wrap up and have like somebody else come in and like all of the the children of the supernatural world like

BB Alston (33:35)
Yeah, that'd be cool, yeah.

Kelly (33:38)
Yes.

BB Alston (33:49)
That would be fun, that would be fun, yeah.

Kelly (33:49)
Yeah.

right? Like maybe, yeah, we're gonna pitch it to you right now. Maybe we're in Morocco and there's a djinn. You know what mean? Like, shoot on location. Yeah.

BB Alston (33:53)
Yeah, that'll be fun.

Nikki (33:59)
OOOOH

BB Alston (33:59)
Okay. yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah. That'd be cool. That'd be pretty cool. Absolutely.

Nikki (34:07)
Hahaha

just have to be like, I really, I have to go on a trip to get in the mood of writing this book. I'll be like, I'll be in this really warm nice place for like three months while I really crack down on this writing.

BB Alston (34:16)
Yeah.

Kelly (34:16)
Yes.

BB Alston (34:23)
Alright, and then you can write it as a text write off. It's research. It's not a vacation, it's research.

Nikki (34:27)
Yeah.

Kelly (34:27)
Yeah.

Nikki (34:30)
Exactly.

Kelly (34:30)
It is, yeah.

We, since you're our first middle grade author that we've gotten to speak to, I'm curious with other books and other series, like sometimes author authors will have beta readers. Do you have any like younger readers that get to read snippets beforehand or like any of that kind of stuff? I'm just curious to know.

BB Alston (34:53)
You know, I wish I did, but the only personal reason is just me, and that's kind of a weird way to do it, because know a lot of my friends will have like beta readers who will read it. But I don't know, I have such a weird process, and I'm always jumping around. I think it'd be hard for the, and I'm always changing. It's hard for me to work with beta readers, just because it's always changing until like the very, last moment. But man, that might be something to consider in the future though, like

Kelly (35:11)
you

BB Alston (35:18)
If I could figure out a way to do it, I would. I'm just such a weird writer. I think it'll be hard for me. Because I have like pieces here and pieces there. Some of it's on the computer, some of it's in a notebook. It's like, it'd be kind of hard, but maybe in the future. Yeah.

Nikki (35:29)
You need to like, corral some of your friends that have children around that age and make them like your unofficial beta readers and be like, okay guys, come over, I'm gonna give you snacks and I need you to critique this book. And they're like, okay.

BB Alston (35:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (35:37)
You

You

BB Alston (35:43)
You know, I have a buddy who does that. I have a buddy. He has all the kids in the neighborhood and they come over and they read the book. So it does work. It does work. Yeah.

Nikki (35:50)
Yeah.

Kelly (35:54)
Yours will be like a choose your own adventure. You'll be like, get to read the first three chapters on my computer, then the next chapter on my, my notebook. And then this one's on a napkin, you know, like I love it.

BB Alston (36:00)
Yeah. Yeah. I love the, I love the, I choose your own adventure books. I love those growing up. I'd love to write one. If I could ever do it, I would love to write one.

Nikki (36:04)
Yeah.

Kelly (36:13)
feel like that would come in handy with Nikki's supernatural ability. She'd have all the decisions made. So she could be like, okay, BB.

Nikki (36:17)
Yeah. Yeah.

BB Alston (36:18)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Here they are, here's all the options.

Nikki (36:21)
I'm ready.

Kelly (36:28)
Not that you're the expert and we're just the readers, but you know.

Nikki (36:31)
Yeah.

BB Alston (36:33)
man, I don't ever feel like an expert, honestly. It just kind of comes together like, oh I'm glad it turned out good, you know. It's a whole process, but yeah.

Kelly (36:43)
For sure, yeah. So you mentioned your different process just now. Do you write your book chronologically or do you kind of like have scenes that come to you and then you try to like weave them together or can you talk to us about your process a bit?

BB Alston (36:59)
So I try to write out of order. know the easiest way to probably write it is write the scenes you're excited about first and kind of piece it together. But I can never seem to do that. And then so I'll just like write on my computer until I feel like I can't write anymore. then I feel like I'm stuck in and I'm like, what am I gonna do next? so I'll grab the notebook and then I'll do that for little while, over couple of days. And then I'll say, well then that's not working anymore. So let me just get my phone out and I'll do it on my phone for little while. It's just a weird process.

But it does turn out okay in the end eventually. I don't know how to describe it, it's just weird. But mostly, chron - Okay, I'm glad. I'm glad. But it's chronologically, like, different, like weird chronologically, guess that's a weird saying that makes any sense. Yeah.

Nikki (37:36)
would say it turns out more than okay. It's great.

Kelly (37:39)
Yeah, clearly, yeah.

Okay, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is a process. Anyway, you boil it down. Yeah.

BB Alston (37:55)
yeah.

Nikki (37:57)
Yeah. Are there, I'm curious, like we, so we don't read a lot of middle grade anymore, like as we're around 30 years old. But I mean, obviously we have favorites from when we were kids. And are there any middle grade authors that you loved growing up or that you like love now as you're like in the genre that

BB Alston (37:58)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

No.

Mm

Nikki (38:26)
inspired you to be like to write for middle grade or anything like that.

BB Alston (38:33)
definitely Roald Dahl. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was my favorite book growing up. my gosh. I felt like I was so much like Charlie. I was like a kid who didn't come from a whole lot. But he had these big old dreams and just the idea of there being like a magic place in the world that you just gotta find, you can stumble into. That's kind of the reason why Amari is what it is. It's because I just fell in love with that type of story. And so yeah, definitely Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. That's my all time favorite book. Yeah.

Nikki (38:55)
that's awesome.

Kelly (38:59)
can totally see that because first of all, the elevators like hello, but like it's so true. Like she gets her golden ticket, you know what I mean? And she gets whisked off to this, yeah, to this new incredible place. And this place is not so much like the factory where it's like, well, you did something against my morals off with you, you know, like I wish Amari has more.

BB Alston (39:03)
Yeah, right.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah... Yeah... Yeah... Yeah...

Nikki (39:23)
Yeah.

Kelly (39:27)
more trials to go through but like still she's whisked off on an adventure so and she brings Jayden with her which I love I love Jayden I really want them to be yeah I want them to get together in whatever way middle graders can you know like

BB Alston (39:32)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love Jayden too, Yeah.

Nikki (39:39)
I know.

BB Alston (39:43)
You know what's funny though? I think about half of the emails I get is like from little girls saying that they want Amari and Dylan to get together no matter what. It doesn't matter what Dylan does. He can blow up half the world and they're still like, Dylan.

Nikki (39:44)
Holding hands on the bus. Love it.

Those kids are gonna grow up to read dark romance.

BB Alston (40:05)
Probably, yeah. There's no step too far for Dylan. I don't know.

Kelly (40:07)
Mm -hmm. If they're not already, yeah.

Nikki (40:16)
That's funny.

Kelly (40:17)
That's like all of those TikToks I see about like there's a professor at a college in the States I think that has like a class on Harry Potter and why people have this fascination with Draco and Hermione. And I'm like, this is true because yeah, like he can do so many things and people are like, but he should be with Hermione. I don't feel that way about Dylan and Amari. I would love if, you know, he saw the error of his ways and like

BB Alston (40:30)
Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Nikki (40:38)
No.

BB Alston (40:45)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's pretty far gone, I think, in this way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure, for sure. But he's fun to write, though. He really is. Just writing a bad guy is so much fun. Because with the good guys, you can't go so far off the good paths. They're going to do the right thing.

Kelly (40:45)
didn't do it anymore, but I'm also realistic where I don't think is gonna happen.

Right? Yeah, the crown's a little tight on his head, so... Yeah.

Nikki (40:59)
Yeah.

Kelly (41:07)
I bet.

BB Alston (41:13)
With the bad guys, they can do anything, right? They can be good for one chapter, not good the next chapter. So that's always fun to play with.

Nikki (41:13)
Yeah.

Kelly (41:13)
Yeah.

Well, yeah, and like Lucas at the end of this book, again, I was like, Lucas and Hannah are here to help and then Lucas changes at the very end. I'm like, excuse me. Like, can I not trust any boy but Jayden in this book?

BB Alston (41:28)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Basically. It does feel like that, huh? No, I promise I won't. I promise I won't .

Nikki (41:36)
Yep, please don't make Jayden turn on her. We can't handle it. We need Jayden.

Kelly (41:43)
Like after all I've done for you, Amari says.

BB Alston (41:47)
my gosh, that would be so heartbreaking. My childhood friend betrayed me. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I would do that. No, no. But there might be some more betrayals in the future. They're just so much fun. They're so much fun. I don't know.

Kelly (41:50)
Yes!

Hey.

I'm gonna keep this memory locked in my brain while reading the next book being like mm -hmm mm -hmm like flipping the page.

BB Alston (42:08)
Yeah, if Jayden betrays you, you every right to find me and let me have it. I would deserve it. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Nikki (42:08)
Hahaha

Kelly (42:20)
I trust you. It'll work out. It'll work out.

Nikki (42:24)
Yeah, one thing I do want to say, so this book series reminded me in a lot of ways of Percy Jackson and the Olympians, and it was really nice. I feel like a lot of young girls grow up with this kind of like pressure to like always do the right thing and you don't see like

Kelly (42:27)
my gosh.

BB Alston (42:34)
Mm

Mm

Nikki (42:50)
ADHD diagnosed in a lot of girls because they're really good at like covering it up and like being calm and being like very even tempered all the time. And the very first scene in Amari and the Night Brothers, Amari is in the principal's office because she shoved a girl. And I knew right then I was like, this is going not that not that I'm condoning shoving and like physical violence, but it's such a good series for young girls.

BB Alston (42:55)
Mm

you

Yeah.

Yeah.

hahahahah

Kelly (43:15)
Yeah.

Nikki (43:19)
because it shows that like, you can just make a decision and go for it. And you don't always have to do the thing that everybody thinks that you should be doing. And you don't have to conform. You can like be yourself and live your own life. And I feel like we see that a lot with like middle grade books with boys like Percy Jackson. But you see Anna, Annabeth in that and she's like,

BB Alston (43:20)
Mm -hmm.

you

Absolutely.

Mm

Hmm.

Nikki (43:45)
No, don't do that. That's not the right thing to do. And in this one, Amari is the one who's like, we're going to do it. And Elsie's like, okay, cool. I'll be there.

BB Alston (43:47)
Hmm

Kelly (43:49)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (43:59)
And I love that and like being able to see like young girls be raised with that viewpoint instead of just like keep to yourself and do what you're told. That's really nice and really freeing.

BB Alston (44:09)
Mm -hmm.

Kelly (44:11)
Mm

BB Alston (44:12)
I think it's really important to show that girls can be every kind of person, every kind of hero. So I think you're totally right. Yeah, absolutely.

Nikki (44:17)
Yeah.

Kelly (44:21)
Yeah, I agree. like Quinton and her kind of being at odds with like, he knows that she wants to help, but then it's like, he's her older brother and like quite a bit older and also her like boss in a way, right? And he's the superstar agent. So there's so many different levels of like authority there. But Amari is just like, I know what I believe is right and I'm going to go for it, you know? And she's so lucky to have a group of people behind her, even Bertha, you know?

Nikki (44:31)
yet.

BB Alston (44:32)
Mm

Yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (44:51)
Bertha, the scary hall monitor, you know, being like, go for it, which is so nice.

Nikki (44:52)
Right?

Yeah, you really thought she was gonna be like awful the whole way through in the first book and then when they came back as junior agents and they were like, she has a soft spot for us and I was like, my god Bertha.

Kelly (45:04)
Yes!

BB Alston (45:04)
Yeah.

Yeah. I like trying to make the kids kind of go through an adventure if possible, right? Sometimes it's harder when you don't see them as much, but I try to, you know, have it be more than one thing in the book, for sure.

Kelly (45:25)
I loved it. It's so much fun and I can't wait for the next book. I'm dying to hear about it, but I know you need time, so yeah.

Nikki (45:30)
same.

BB Alston (45:31)
Awesome.

Nikki (45:35)
We can give you that I guess.

BB Alston (45:37)
Well, I'm sure you probably she probably will be up in the bureau again for some reason but it'll probably be somewhere different and yeah and Gosh, I guess it's a spoiler section. So, know, you know, I can give you guys something so, know, Fiona has a kid and Fiona's kid was gonna have a stepdad

Kelly (45:46)
Hey.

Yes.

BB Alston (46:04)
who is no longer alive. And so she might have a certain feeling toward Amari about that. And so that's going to be a major source of conflict in the next book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (46:06)
Mm -hmm.

Nikki (46:12)
Ooh, yes.

Kelly (46:16)
my god. Okay. Okay. Cause honestly, like I find boy villains or men who are villains are scary, but I honestly think women are scarier. Like Harlow, she was terrifying to me. And so this little girl, not saying that she's going to be a villain necessarily, but like hell hath no fury than a woman's scorn. Right? So I'm excited and also terrified. Yeah.

BB Alston (46:29)
You

Mm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, girls can be really mean when they're that age. Yeah. my god, yeah. Yeah.

Kelly (46:44)
Yeah, they can't be. I think I'm 30 and I'm still recovering from my middle school years. yeah, like, thanks a lot people, but.

BB Alston (46:51)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like it's a lot more subtle too. It's a lot more subtle. Because guys are a lot more in your face, but I feel like with younger girls, sometimes it's a lot more subtle and maybe passive aggressive a little bit  sometimes. That's what I'm seeing. Yeah, that's fun to write too. That's fun to write too. I'm sure.

Nikki (46:52)
Yeah.

yeah.

Kelly (47:11)
yeah. It's fun to write, but it's not fun to experience, I will say.

BB Alston (47:19)
I'm sure. Yeah, for sure.

Kelly (47:22)
you know, it is what it is.

Well, I just want to say thank you once again to B.B Alston for chatting with us today. If you want to keep up to date on all things Amari, you can follow him on Instagram at B.B underscore Alston or visit his website at BB Alston .com. And if you liked this episode and want to learn more about us, you can follow us on Instagram at BYO Book Podcast or on TikTok at Bring Your Own Book Podcast. Thank you so much for listening to or watching this episode on YouTube of BYOB.

In the wise words of Quinton's partner Maria, remember, being good is a choice and it's one you have to keep making again and again, no matter how hard it gets. See ya!

Nikki (48:06)
See ya!

BB Alston (48:08)
See ya, bye bye.