"The Art of Catching Feelings" by Alicia Thompson

In this episode, Kelly and Nikki discuss their thoughts on the book The Art of Catching Feelings by Alicia Thompson. They discuss catfishing versus secret penpal tropes, baseball, and whether or not community service is a good idea for a date.

Thank you to Berkley Books for the Advanced Reader Copy in exchange for an honest review from BYOB.

Catfishing romance books: sexy, or ick with a capital I? Nikki and Kelly are ready to chat- let them know your take by sending them a message!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction with book synopsis
• 6:59 Picking things apart
• 25:55 Community service
• 29:38 Divorce & family ties
• 39:28 Sports!
• 44:40 Cover design & banter

Transcript

Kelly (00:12)
Hey everyone, welcome to BYOB, the Bring Your Own Book podcast. I'm Kelly. And today we're gonna talk about Alicia Thompson's baseball romance, The Art of Catching Feelings. Thank you so much to Berkeley Penguin Random House for sending us an advanced reader copy, which we have right here. And it is beautiful, love that cover. And now you can actually see us. Whoa, what is this? But anyways.

Nikki (00:17)
and I'm Nikki.

Kelly (00:42)
Before we go into a deep dive on our thoughts and feelings, Nikki is going to tell us a bit more about the book.

Nikki (00:48)
Okay, so this is the synopsis, the nitty gritty of it. A professional baseball player and his heckler prove that true love is worth going to bat for. Daphne Brink doesn't follow baseball, but watching America's snoozefest certainly beats sitting at home in the days after she signs her divorce papers. After one too many ballpark beers, she heckles Carolina Battery player Chris Kepler.

Kelly (00:54)
Yes.

Nikki (01:15)
who quickly proves there might actually be a little crying in baseball.

I have to say, I love that they used that reference from A League of Their Own. Praise. Horrified, Daphne reaches out to Chris on social media to apologize, but forgets to identify herself as his heckler in her message. Chris doesn't usually respond to random fans on social media, but he's grieving and fragile. After an emotionally turbulent few months, when a DM from Duckie catches his eye,

Kelly (01:27)
Yes, you have to.

Nikki (01:51)
He impulsively messages back. Ducky is sweet, funny, and seems to understand him in a way no one else does. Daphne isn't sure how much longer she can keep lying to Chris, especially as she starts working with the team in real life and their feelings for each other deepen. When he finds out the truth, will it be three strikes, she's out? I can tell you exactly how long it takes her to tell him. About 83 % of the f -ing book.

Kelly (02:23)
I know! There were so many curve balls, fast balls, foul balls, oh my God. Like, but really not, let's be honest. Maybe a few balls somewhere.

Nikki (02:29)
Oh my gosh, just balls everywhere.

Yeah.

Kelly (02:40)
No, thank you so much for reading that.

Nikki (02:43)
No problem.

Kelly (02:46)
So, okay, before I guess I'll start with my like overview review thoughts. I was so excited for this book because I really loved I might have it right here.

Nikki (02:50)
Yeah.

Kelly (03:00)
This is so fun. I could just like grab a book off the shelf. Oh my God. And everyone can see. Well, whoever's watching this video can see, but I loved Love in the Time of Serial Killers. Okay. I'm pretty sure this was her first book. I loved it so much that I was super excited when I found out that this book was coming out. And I love like pen pal stuff. Like I love You've Got Mail. That's one of my all time favorite rom -coms. And so when I read this, I was kind of disappointed.

Because there were still some things that I really loved from like Alicia Thompson's writing style but what Nikki said is correct. Like she doesn't come clean until like 83 % of the book and at this point they've had sex several times. Like...

Nikki (03:49)
And I wouldn't even say it's coming clean. She gets found out. So that's different.

Kelly (03:52)
 Yes. Yes. So I just, I think I ended up giving it like a three out of five because there were some things I really liked about it, but it just, it felt icky because she was lying so much. Like it wasn't even like, Oh, how do I? I mean, well, she did kind of feel like, how do I tell him? How do I tell him? But like, girl, you had like,

his penis was inside you and he doesn't know. You know what I mean? Like not the same as You've Got Mail. So yeah, so I gave it like a three and a half or no three out of five and I was a little disappointed, but I would read her again. So what did you think?

Nikki (04:25)
Yeah.

Definitely a different vibe, for sure.

Yeah.

I gave this book a two out of five and I only gave it a two because I finished it. So backing up, I also read Love in the Time of Serial Killers on the recommendation from Kelly because she loved it so much. And I am sorry, I feel like you steered me so wrong with that book because

Kelly (04:47)
Mm. Okay.

I did.

Nikki (05:12)
almost verbatim, I believe what you said was it's mostly about the serial killer thing, like she doesn't really talk about the romance and I think what something got jumbled in your brain and what you meant to say was every second thing she says is about her neighbor.

Kelly (05:30)
Yeah, but it wasn't like, it wasn't like Tessa Bailey, like Insta love, like gotta be with him, blah, blah. It was like, this guy.

Nikki (05:37)
I kind of felt like it was, I don't know. There was just like, I didn't love that book even though I love like true crime stuff. So going into this, I think I had like very managed expectations. I was like, okay, I kind of know what I'm getting into with her writing and stuff. I didn't think that it was going to be so catfishy. And so I read,

Kelly (05:48)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (06:06)
a couple years ago, Well Played, which is part of the Well Met like Renaissance fair series by Jen DeLuca. And that book gave me the ick majorly accompanied by the fact that the writing wasn't very good. This one, the writing was a lot better, but I was, I just couldn't get on board with any of it.

Kelly (06:22)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Nikki (06:35)
because I understand that there was, it was this like miscommunication thing, but I really wish that it would have been like 50 % of the way through the book. She said, hey, this is just a misunderstanding because wow, it took way too long.

Kelly (06:52)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, or like, you know, maybe don't have her work with him as her real self. Like, why? There's, this is the thing. I feel so bad because I hate feeling like, well, I'll just pick apart this book and tell you how it should have happened. You know? Like, I feel like a dick.

Nikki (07:03)
Right.

I know, because when you give a rating on something and you give it a bad rating because you thought it was something that it isn't, that's not really super fair because that's not what the book was. So that's kind of your fault for not reading the synopsis or not managing your expectations or something. But at the same time, we gotta...

Kelly (07:29)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki (07:47)
Say the feelings.

Kelly (07:49)
Yeah. And I mean, again, I'm going to pick it apart. I'm going to say how this could have worked maybe for me better. If, okay. So what happens is what had happened was, um, she heckles him. She's drunk off her ass. She starts heckling because there's this like guy beside her who's drunk heckling people. And she's like, baseball. Yeah. I'm going to join in and like, try to do what the locals do. You know, like the fans do.

Nikki (07:55)
I love it.

Kelly (08:17)
and she heckles this guy and she doesn't realize until after she does it that he's on the home team. So she's like, oh my God, I just heckled our own people. What am I doing? I'm so drunk. And then he locks eyes with her and he's like all upset and she leaves and she sees later that he was crying. And she's like, what? Cause her, her heckle was not even like that bad, but it like touched a personal thing for him.

Nikki (08:40)
It was actually quite lame for heckles, like how heckling goes.

Kelly (08:43)
 Yes. It was something like, are you Christopher Robin? Because you're playing like Pooh, something like that. Because his name is Chris. And you find out that it's like, you know, a personal thing about a family member that passed away and all this stuff. So, um, but yeah, so then what happens is she tries to apologize to him and she doesn't she like,

Nikki (08:51)
Yeah.

Kelly (09:10)
accidentally erases the part that says, I'm your heckler. And then they start talking together and then she doesn't tell him, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I am your heckler. And then she gets a job work, which was so weird, working with the team as the sideline reporter. And she has to talk with him as her real self and he doesn't even care about the heckling. So I just feel like in a way or a way that could have been better to do this is like,

If they don't know it's her, she shouldn't work with him. If he does know it's her, he should not like her for much longer. It shouldn't be like, oh, I don't care about the heckle. What? Then you should, you should, because like, you have to be with her in close proximity all this time. Then it would, it would have morphed into like that kind of misunderstanding. Like I don't like you, but I have to be with you for work versus like I am straight up lying.

Nikki (09:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, more of like an enemies to lovers. Yeah, I agree. There was... I don't know. I just have a hard time. And maybe people can correct us or tell us what they like about it. I have a really hard time understanding how catfishing can lead to anything sexy. Because speaking as a female,

Kelly (10:09)
Yes. Yeah.

Nikki (10:35)
if a man said some rude ass shit to me and then pretended he was not that person and slid in my DMs and wouldn't talk to me on the phone while I talked to them and they masturbated while they send me pictures of their cat, their literal cat, not their like kitty cat. And...

Kelly (11:00)
Yes. Yeah.

Look at he got, yeah.

Nikki (11:05)
Yeah, real meow. And like, the list goes on, man, tells me all of these things that are kind of like half truths. And then, okay, first of all, we would have never even made it to the P and the V because I would have been like, you're disgusting, stay away from me. And then when I found out that the person that was trying to make me like them was the same person, I would be extra ick, extra ick.

Kelly (11:15)
Yep.

No!

Yes.

Nikki (11:36)
So I just, I don't know how that happens. I know men are different than women, but that different?

Kelly (11:42)
Clearly, maybe. I don't know, what am I doing? Like, well, I mean, I'm already married, but like, what? Like, I just don't understand. Like, I messaged Nikki when I got to the mutual masturbation over the phone, but like, the girl won't say a word because she's trying to hide that he already knows her because they already met, they work together at this point. I was like, what? What? This is not, this is not okay. Like, I just felt so grossed out and like,

But also, I'm sorry, Chris, what are you doing? What are you doing? Why are you touching yourself on the phone with someone who won't tell you their name? Like, didn't you ever think this could be like an eighty -year -old man? Like, you know what I mean? Because even her bookstagram, she has a bookstagram, no pictures of herself, just her hands. A guy could have nice hands, you know what what I mean? So.

Nikki (12:21)
Yeah.

Oh.

Yep.

Kelly (12:39)
How could you just do that? I don't know. I couldn't do it. It's not, not me.

Nikki (12:41)
I just feel like it's Internet Protection 101.

Kelly (12:48)
Yeah.

Nikki (12:49)
don't talk to strangers online, especially if you're famous and you're probably used to trying to be taken advantage of by fans. That's why he doesn't talk to random fans usually in his DMs. I just like the urge must be strong because...

Kelly (12:58)
Mm.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (13:13)
Dude, you have a hand. You don't need to just go out there on the on the interwebs and try to like, omegle people. That's what this felt like. It felt like being on Omegle when you're a kid.

Kelly (13:21)
No.

Oh, Meagle, is that like the chat roulette or something? Oh God, I could never do, I'm like, I would be terrified to go on that. I know girls growing up, yeah, I know people who went on it and they're like, I saw so many penises. I'm like, ew. Not my idea of a good time, that's for sure.

Nikki (13:31)
Yeah.

It was scary.

Yep. Yep.

It was wild. The wild west of the internet.

Kelly (13:51)
I was gonna say. But like also his agent is like, don't text, writing stays forever, use the phone. I'm like, she could just record the call. And then you have an audio recording of him jerking it to Ducky. Who's Ducky?

Nikki (14:05)
Yeah.

Also, like, yeah, she doesn't say anything, so it's not like anything incriminating against her. That's what I mean. I'm just like, do you have two brain cells to rub together? Are you not thinking, what are the implications of what?

Kelly (14:14)
No.

No, just a hand.

Nikki (14:26)
Exactly.

Kelly (14:26)
 and your hand tonight.

basically while I'm on the phone quietly.

Nikki (14:34)
real... ugh.

Kelly (14:35)
Oh god, like, so many red flags, alarm bells, like, tell me your name. No, you can call me Ducky. Really? What's your name?

Nikki (14:48)
I'd be like definitely a man.

Kelly (14:51)
Yes! And his friend, the baseball player, is it Randy? I want to say? Maybe? Randy or Gary. He's like, dude, you don't even know what this person is. Like, the one voice of reason. You know? But Chris is like, no, it's fine. I know her. Do you?

Nikki (14:57)
Yeah, yeah, I think it's Randy.

Yeah.

Not fine.

Kelly (15:14)
This is okay. I don't think this is a hot take, but I think it needs to be said because for posterity at least. If society just taught men that it was okay to have feelings and like talk about things, this wouldn't have happened because all she was was a faceless entity online being like, I'm so sorry that you're hurt.

Nikki (15:20)
Right.

Kelly (15:41)
whatever, and then he starts to talk to her because he's like, I had a connection. But like, there was like a little bit of flirting, but nothing crazy until later. So literally, he was just like desperate to talk about his feelings and to have someone listen to him. Like, that's sad, you know? And like, there's so many men in my life where I'm just like, what do you do when you hang out with your friends? Like, because when we hang out, we're like chatting about everything. We're talking about our feelings, good or bad, like,

Nikki (15:58)
Yeah.

Kelly (16:11)
We're talking about, well, we ate like literally everything. So.

Nikki (16:14)
I feel like they literally don't talk about anything. I've asked my boyfriend before, oh, when you hang out with your brother, your literal brother, do you talk about your girlfriends or like the tea and stuff? He goes, not really. So what do you talk about?

Kelly (16:17)
No.

Yeah, but also their version of the T is like, somebody didn't show up today. I'm like, why, what happened? Where were they? Did you hear anything? No.

Nikki (16:45)
Did you ask? No.

Kelly (16:49)
I tell them the five, is it five Ws and the H. Who, what, when, where, why, and how. Yeah, give it to me.

Nikki (16:52)
Yeah.

If you don't have any of those, why are you even telling me? I don't care. Doesn't matter. Yeah.

Kelly (17:00)
Exactly. Amateur. Amateur.

But yeah, no, I just going back to this book.

I liked some parts of it, like I thought some of the stuff was well written, but like...

I don't know. I wanted it to be more like You've Got Mail and You've Got Mail. Yes, Tom Hanks. He knows that he's talking to Meg Ryan. He knows that he finds that out. But like they don't do anything with their secret identities. They just talk. They don't know anything about each other online. They don't master it over the phone or over AOL Messenger. Like they don't have sex. And at the very end of it, they have a friendship.

Nikki (17:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kelly (17:52)
and she kind of stops talking to him online and then they meet up and she's like, I wanted it to be you, you know? Versus like, this was not okay. Like, it just boggles my mind. I was so excited for this book, Nikki. I was so excited.

Nikki (18:10)
Yeah.

What were things you did like about the book? Since you gave it a three, you must have liked a couple things.

Kelly (18:24)
I did. I liked some of the banter even like with within the baseball team. I liked some of that. I liked that for the most part the people felt like real people. However, that has a caveat of I found the end of the book to be really telly and not showy because it was like I need to make sure the readers are on board with them getting together.

Nikki (18:32)
Mm -hmm.

Okay.

Kelly (18:54)
And so I'm gonna have her explain everything in like a super long DM.

Nikki (19:01)
It was very long.

Kelly (19:02)
when I'm like, you could have also just like talked to him in person maybe, you know, or like done something where you knew he could have seen it instead of waiting like nine weeks for him to go back to his Instagram, because he deleted it.

Nikki (19:17)
Yeah, even like writing a letter or something that you give to him and say, hey, I'm really sorry. This explains everything. If you don't feel like you want to read it, that's fine. But this was, this is it. Because I know you probably don't want to have a conversation with me right now. Yeah, because that whole thing, what, it had been like nine weeks.

Kelly (19:21)
Yes! Yes!

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nikki (19:43)
He saw it after she had sent it nine weeks previously. So, I don't know.

Kelly (19:48)
Mm -hmm.

Like at that point, you're really just doing it for yourself because you know he deleted his Instagram. So, you know, I don't, I don't know. That was kind of like, I get it. But I'm also like, that was a weird choice. Like in real life, you know what I mean? I know it's not real life, but like, hit my mic. This is contemporary romance. Okay. So there's no like fire breathing dragon that he's got to beat off.

Nikki (19:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well... His fire breathing dragon.

Kelly (20:29)
I And I And I And I I liked the stuff with him and trying to come to terms with his career. Like, do I want to do this? Like, what's going on? Because I could relate to that with theater and having something be your everything. And then you're like, is this my everything? How do I do this in a healthy way? Like, whatever. But yeah, I found the end to be really telly and not showy. That makes sense. Like a lot of exposition.

Nikki (20:56)
Right.

Kelly (20:59)
And even like with the mental health stuff, I was like, this is a lot of telling and not showing. And see, I started from stuff I liked and now I'm back to stuff I didn't like.

Nikki (21:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I think at the beginning, I got really caught up on this stereotype she puts on Chris of, I don't say my feelings, which is fine for you to put into a book. And it's very true for a lot of men. But I felt, and I think I said this in my Goodreads review, the book just felt

Kelly (21:14)
Ugh.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (21:40)
like she had a list of like tropes or things that she had to accomplish. And she put them into this story. We want somebody who has a hard time expressing their feelings. Oh, but it's a book. I'm writing a book. So I have to make it relatable for all the girls who are going to read the book. So this girl has to love books. And she has to have a bookstagram. And I as soon as first page,

Kelly (21:51)
Hmm.

Nikki (22:10)
I'm reading a book at the baseball game. I was like, get a fucking life. Get a fucking life. I was... Right? I understand people do that. I'm not shitting on real people who do that. I just felt just automatically angry that it was just like she's pandering.

Kelly (22:17)
I I couldn't read at the game. It's too loud. Yeah.

She's a plant.

Nikki (22:35)
Yeah. So, I don't know. After those two things in conjunction in the first chapter or two, I just was over it. They didn't feel real to me anymore. And then when the catfishing thing happened, I didn't want them to be real because that's just garbage.

Kelly (22:45)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

And I'll...

Yeah, but also like the fact that he was grieving and not expressing emotions. I'm like, could we not just have one or the other? Like, you know what what I mean? Because I do think that's also something that's often used in books is like, if someone's having trouble expressing their feelings or dealing with feelings, it's because of grief, which yeah, that's that can be true. But I also think it's just true for a lot of men in everyday life.

Nikki (23:02)
Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Kelly (23:23)
So we could have just had that like one or the other. Like he's either grieving or he's like locked up, doesn't want to talk about things. And he still had all that baseball stuff. So you can have a lot of feelings about the baseball stuff. Here you go.

Nikki (23:26)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it just, it just felt like a lot of things that were just stacked up to add. Like, oh, I needed to be more, I needed to be more, I needed to be this or that, people love this trope right now, etc.

Kelly (23:44)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There's also, I wouldn't call it a micro trope. I do want to talk about micro tropes one day, cause I think that'd be fun of like little things that we love in books. This is a little thing I hate in books. He left the apartment, the condo, whatever, in a huff, in a hurry. And he says to her, lock up on your way out. How is she going to lock up? She doesn't have keys. How do you lock the door on your way out? So you just left her in your apartment.

Nikki (24:02)
Right.

Love it.

Kelly (24:21)
It's open. She's gone.

Nikki (24:23)
 getting really into like the nitty gritty. You'd have to have a doorknob that has the little lock on the inside. So she'd have to lock it and then close the door on herself to lock the door. But also why would you leave your cat fisher in your apartment? She could go through all your stuff. She could steal your personal information. She could shit on your concrete dining room table. I don't know. She could do, yeah, she could do.

Kelly (24:43)
Yes!

your pillow?

Nikki (24:52)
Literally whatever she wanted to do. She could eat all your pasta. I don't know like You just don't know So I if I was him I would have said Get the fuck out Grab your stuff and go

Kelly (24:56)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

You need to leave. Yeah. I'm not leaving. You're leaving. This is my place. Yes. Oh my God.

Nikki (25:12)
Yeah. Anyway, I'm just, this book riles me up. I feel like I could play a game of baseball after this. Let out my energy.

Kelly (25:22)
Well, I was gonna say, yes, one of the good things I liked about this book was that I loved that she was not into baseball. I'm also not into baseball, but by the end of it, she had some kind of appreciation for the sport, for the culture, whatever. And I did feel kind of a part of that by the end. So I thought that was done really well and I liked it, because I've read other sports books where that was not the case. So, which I'm not gonna get into this episode, no.

Nikki (25:38)
Right.

Yeah, I don't like baseball, but it was, baseball was probably one of my favorite parts of the whole book. I liked when they went and did the day, like the field day with the kids.

Kelly (26:02)
Oh, see I didn't. I was like, move on.

Nikki (26:03)
But like, I liked it, but at the same time, she's like, I planned something for you to do, community service. I would, I mean, maybe I'm just not a generous person.

Kelly (26:17)
Mm -hmm.

That's not true.

Nikki (26:21)
Like, I don't know, but I would, I would feel like I need to emotionally prepare to do something like this. You can't just spring it onto me that I'm now going to be teaching what 15 to 20 little tykes how to play baseball and signing their autographs and they're touching me with their grubby little hands and yeah.

Kelly (26:23)
Ehh

Yeah!

Ugh.

This.

Yeah, this sounds like a terrible Bachelor date. You know what I mean? Like I finally get a one on one date and he's like, yeah, I have something really cool planned for us. And then they have to like go like, again, I sound like a bitch, but like, whatever. Tell me I'm wrong. Okay. If you were like, yes, I'm going on a one on one with The Bachelor. Like some people go on a helicopter. Some people like go spelunking, like all sorts of crazy things. And I'm going to go serve people at a soup kitchen for

Nikki (26:50)
Yeah.

Kelly (27:16)
hours. It's not that I'm not, you know, I couldn't do the soup kitchen myself because that's a lot of people I've worked in food service. So I'm like, hell no, this is just not my jam. But like, you know, yes, it's good to help people but for your date, you're all excited you go and then you're like, oh, I'm working with people I don't know. And yeah.

Nikki (27:17)
Right?

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the thing, like, for everybody watching and listening, we would do these things. We're just saying that if we didn't have a heads up and if we thought we were going on a date with a really hot guy and we had certain expectations about what that date would possibly be, I would be like, why did I do my hair to put it in a hairnet? Why did I spend all of this time?

Kelly (27:49)
Heads up.

Yeah.

Right? Oh my god, and listen to kids like razzing me about how badly I'm doing at my job. Like, ah, hi, let's go hit a ball. Like.

Nikki (28:12)
Right? You suck this season. Cool. Thanks. I know that. I'm the professional. Yeah.

Kelly (28:19)
It was like Space Jam, but not as good. Because Space Jam is great. The first one, never the second. Yes. The only catfish, if you could even call it that, which it's not, is when he labels his water Michael's special stuff or special juice or whatever. People are going to listen and be like, you're wrong, Kelly. That's not what he labels it. I don't know. But you know what I'm talking about. He labels his water and all the Looney Tunes think they're going to be buff and so good like Michael Jordan.

Nikki (28:23)
and there's no catfishing.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Kelly (28:48)
So he's like, it's just water kids. Confidence.

Nikki (28:52)
Yeah, with a little bit of cocaine in it.

They don't tell you that part. I'm kidding. Probably.

Kelly (29:04)
I'm just saying like, you know, no matter I mean, I don't really do surprises in general, but like a heads up would be good before I had to go be around kids for hours in the sun. That's all I'm saying. But and then she doesn't even like, well, I guess the whole point of it was so he could like fall in love with baseball again. But I'm like, you could have taken a picture to like do your job while you were doing your job.

Nikki (29:12)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

Kelly (29:35)
you know, but.

What did you think about, oh yes, what did you think about her brother and the whole divorce situation? Cause yeah.

Nikki (29:54)
Well...

The brother, I was just kind of like, you're not a very attentive husband, so maybe you should get a divorce.

Kelly (29:56)
Pause.

Yes.

I kind of was hoping that they would because... yeah.

Nikki (30:10)
Yeah, I don't know. I think that him not realizing that all of the mean stuff he said to her as a kid was affecting her. You're what, 30 years old now, you don't have enough, I don't know, compassion to understand that when you were a teenager, you were a dick. I don't think the problem is that he was a dick to his sister when he was younger. I'm sure all siblings have that.

Kelly (30:34)
Mm -hmm.

Nikki (30:39)
but just being able to acknowledge it when you're older and like, hey, that may be really affected you, especially because I was doing that shitty stuff with my best friend who would later become your husband who would keep being shitty.

Kelly (30:39)
Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Nikki (30:51)
The divorce, great, good for her. Divorce that bitch. I don't know. And it's hard to, I tried not to really have a lot of feelings about the brother, still best friends with him and stuff, because they have their own relationship and you can't expect everybody in your life to cut other people out of their lives for you. It should be enough.

Kelly (30:55)
Yes. Oh that. Yeah. Yes.

Nikki (31:21)
them to just say I'm not going to bring them up or I'm not going to bring them around you. Like, because they have their own relationship that lasted or was solid even before she was married to him. So I don't know, that could be like, I'm sure some people would say, you can't be friends with them anymore, or whatever. And they would have a hard line on that. But I just like, you can't police people like that. So I was just trying to be like, well, you know,

Kelly (31:25)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Nikki (31:49)
That's pretty realistic, I guess.

Kelly (31:52)
I just, I got annoyed at the brother and I feel, I think Daphne did call him out on it, which I was like, okay, good. Cause if not, I was going to call him out on here, which I'm going to do anyway. But like, I, I just think it's really telling and odd at the same time that he was like, I almost told you not to marry him the day before. Cause I didn't think he was a good partner.

Nikki (32:14)
Right.

Kelly (32:18)
and that's your best friend. So I'm like, that's the company you choose to keep. You know, I agree with you. I think it is kind of not fair to be like, you can't hang out with this person anymore. I think the only time that I could like justify someone saying that was if it was like an egregious thing. Like if there was like abuse, like physical abuse, sexual abuse, you know, I can understand that gets messier.

Nikki (32:22)
Right.

Right.

Yeah, definitely.

Kelly (32:47)
And like, you have to kind of reconcile with that yourself, like if you're the brother, but like the fact that he was like, yeah, I didn't think he was good for you. I didn't want you to marry him. I was like, what? Like that's you choose to keep around. Yes. Yeah. I just think it says a lot about him, but that's your best friend because I don't have any friends where I'm like, I don't think you're a good partner. Like, I don't think you're a good person. Like, why would you be my friend then? Like,

Nikki (32:59)
Yeah, I feel like you should voice that.

Right.

Yeah, I don't know, because the... Like, speaking from personal experience, I don't blame people for staying friends with my ex -husband. They're not in the same relationship that I was in with him. He doesn't... When you're in a relationship with someone, this is gonna sound bad, there's a certain amount of policing that can happen. You want to be with somebody who...

Kelly (33:16)
I don't know.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nikki (33:44)
is X, Y, and Z or does X, Y, and Z and the person that you're with will accommodate you in those things even if they're not very important to them because you're important to them. So in that way, I was policed by my ex -husband for certain expectations that I did not want to follow, which is why we got divorced. But he doesn't do that to his friends.

Kelly (33:56)
Mm -hmm.

Nikki (34:14)
He doesn't say, hey, you're my friend, so I want you to eat this way or exercise or like, blah, blah. So I'm not going to say to them, oh, you've known him for years, but he did this to me and you can't be friends with him anymore. They don't have the same relationship. And I feel like that's kind of what the situation was. Like he wasn't abusive to her physically, but the expectations that he was putting on her and the things that he wanted her to be okay with were things that she just ultimately...

Kelly (34:14)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (34:43)
couldn't accommodate. That's not her fault. And I would say it is his fault for having unrealistic expectations about what he should be asking of a partner. But in the end, if that's what he wants, that's his prerogative, I guess. So I don't know. This is turning into like a marriage help podcast. But like, that's kind of where my yeah, that's kind of where my thoughts are on that. It's

Kelly (34:45)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

It's part of the book though, yeah.

Nikki (35:13)
It's complicated and every situation is different, but you know.

Kelly (35:17)
Yeah. I'm just saying if I was friends with someone who was going to marry my sister, because I do have a sister, right? If they were going to get married and I was like, he is a terrible partner, but he's my best friend. How is that your best friend? You know, like, I don't know. That's the weird thing when it's your family member of like. Yeah, I'd be like, dude, maybe you should like.

Nikki (35:32)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Kelly (35:47)
Be nicer to my sister, you know?

Nikki (35:48)
Well, I think that's the thing like with when it comes to it being your family member. I don't have siblings and my ex -husband didn't have siblings. So there wasn't like, there wasn't anybody else looking at us quite like that. Yeah, if my best friend was being shitty to my sister or my brother, I would, that would feel way different than being like, wow, he's kind of shitty to his girlfriend. That's not my problem. I can say to him,

Kelly (35:54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Nikki (36:18)
You're being shitty to your girlfriend, but in the end, if they break up, I don't know the girlfriend. They're not my problem or my responsibility. Or I don't have to deal with the fallout of what that situation causes. And I'm not saying if your best friend is hitting their girlfriend, you say, oh, you're just being kind of shitty. You say, that's wrong. But I just mean normal shittiness, not extreme.

Kelly (36:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, like emotional immaturity or incompatibility. Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (36:48)
problems.

Yes.

So, I don't know, we're getting deep.

Kelly (36:56)
He like buys her a baseball ticket, like you can rekindle like, ew. Like trying to keep the dream team together, I guess, but.

Nikki (37:03)
Yeah.

Well that's the thing, like, if he didn't think they were good together, he should've just let sleeping dogs lie, like, why are you trying to set them back up again? That didn't make sense.

Kelly (37:12)
Yeah. Right? I felt like, I feel like that part had to be there in the author's mind so that she could then set up later on that she has a connection to the people who work with the team. And then that's how she gets her job. But I'm like, because she gets the ticket through whatever her sister -in -law's name is, I forget. What I want to say, Talia. Yeah, Lila or Layla or...

Nikki (37:37)
L -Lyla?

Lila? Yeah.

Kelly (37:42)
Yeah. So she's the sideline reporter and which I did find interesting learning about like when Daphne was like, why do I ask these stupid questions that are so like dumb? And she was like, oh, it's just to get people like in the game and like thinking about what just happened. It's not actual like reporting for the most part. I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Because yeah, watching sports, I'm like, why are we asking? Like, how did you feel about getting that goal?

Nikki (37:56)
Yeah.

Right.

Kelly (38:12)
What do you think? What are you going to do next? How are you going to try to win this game? I'm going to try to get a goal. I watch I watch hockey growing up.

Nikki (38:17)
Yeah, I feel good about getting the goal because that's the goal of the game. Yeah.

Kelly (38:22)
Yes, you know what I mean? So so that I was like, OK, that's interesting to hear, because I never really thought about it. But like, so she gives her the baseball ticket and then later on, that's how she gets the job or whatever. But I'm like. What it was so bizarre.

Nikki (38:38)
Well, I just think that there were just certain parts about that that was unnecessary. You can just say, my brother and his fiance gave us, like gave my friend and I tickets because I had just gotten divorced and they wanted to try to cheer me up and give me a day to go and do something fun.

Kelly (38:52)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, or my friend who she ends up going with got me the ticket so we could stare at these guys in their tight pants, you know, and drink. There you go.

Nikki (39:05)
Yeah. Yeah. I just was like, why did it have to be this weird rekindling and then she took the ticket from him and the divorce and blah blah blah. I would be like, great, have my ticket. I hate baseball and I don't want to sit with you.

Kelly (39:16)
Yeah.

Boom. Yeah. Spent $20 for one beer, you know? You know what? I did go, I will say going to a baseball game is fun for the atmosphere because I've been a few times in Toronto. Like, okay, it is like pretty cheap seats that we had, but the pretzels were disgusting. Nikki, when I tell you one side was just white, that much salt, I took one bite and I was like,

Nikki (39:28)
Right?

Right.

Oh...

Kelly (39:52)
And then my friend who came with us, who is really into baseball, he took it from me and I was like, I don't know how you're alive right now. Like with the one bite, I thought I was gonna shrivel up and just, like it was that much salt. Why is my sweatshirt like climbing backwards? I don't know. That's how like, oh, I am about this pretzel.

Nikki (40:12)
I've never been to a professional sports game. And yeah, no, I mean, I saw the Harlem Globetrotters when I was younger, but that's like not the same thing. It was a lot of fun. But yeah, I've never been to a baseball game or an NHL hockey game or anything like that. But I want to go just because I am somebody that if everybody else is getting really hyped.

Kelly (40:18)
Really?

Oh, that's fun.

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki (40:41)
I will get really hyped. And I'm like, just tell me what to say and I will, I will scream it. I will be there. And I just want to like eat the hot dogs. I don't know. I have this like thing in my mind that like the hot dogs are going to be like extra good. I don't know.

Kelly (40:49)
Oh my God.

Yes!

The street dogs are way better than normal dogs. Like I gotta say, yes, yes. For baseball, for hockey, like, no, you don't go for the hot dogs, but baseball, yes. Honestly, I love sports. I grew up watching hockey all the time. Now Scott and I watch base, or not baseball, obviously not, basketball. But it's so much fun going to the games. We have to go sometime to something, yeah.

Nikki (41:00)
Yep.

Yeah.

Basketball.

Yeah, I think it'll be fun. Yeah, it just never, it was never a thing. I mean, I watched golf growing up. That's, it's not as exciting as, and by watch golf, I mean, I sat there while my parents were like asleep on the couch because golf was on.

Kelly (41:30)
Hehehehehe!

Not the same. I'd be like, yeah! And then everyone would be like.

I had a great uncle who has passed away since I last saw him, but anyways, he would always like, when he visited, he would come over and watch either the Blue Jays or Tiger Woods. That's like, that's it. He would just come in and plop down. And so I'm like, hey, Uncle Gary, like, just watching the Blue Jays, but yeah, I don't know. Yeah, he was happy doing that. So I don't know, but.

Nikki (41:56)
Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we all have a thing, I guess.

Kelly (42:12)
I did like the sports vibes in this book, even if the romance was a little like...

Nikki (42:15)
Yeah.

Confusing. That about why it was romance.

Kelly (42:20)
Yeah, I do wish there was more of the away game stuff, you know?

Nikki (42:24)
I did like the hotel room stuff and when she was like, okay, I didn't like this part. But when she opens the door and she's like, we can't do anything because I'm on my period. And she's like, he's gonna think I'm so disgusting because I'm on my period. Basically, I'm like, girl, you're like 30. If a man is weirded out by your period, you shouldn't want to be with him.

Kelly (42:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

He's a child. Yeah.

Nikki (42:51)
I was like, why is this such a big deal? I'd be like, hey, we can grab something to eat. I'm on my period. I don't really feel comfortable with you like being up in my vag right now. I don't know, like just be normal.

Kelly (43:02)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. I mean, and like he was fine about it, too. He was just like, OK, I just read a book where that same thing happened. But he was like. I mean, like, because, OK, we're going to get TMI. I don't really care. Whatever. It's just us girls here and whoever the hell listens to this. But, you know, as a woman who has a period. There are some days where you're like,

Nikki (43:09)
Yeah.

Yup.

Kelly (43:31)
don't get anywhere near me. And some days where you're like, no, no, if I'm in the mood, okay, great. You know, so just depends where you are in your cycle, whatever. So she tells this guy in this other book I read, like I'm on my period. And he was like, that's what, that's what like a dark towel and something else is for. And I was like, I forget what he said, but I was like, that's the answer. That is the answer.

Nikki (43:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Kelly (43:57)
So he didn't care in this book, so we'll give him that. And he was like, we can just hang out. Like, I don't need to have sex with you every time I see you. Like, let's just chill. So that was nice. But yeah, like you're an adult. Why? Because guys are crappy sometimes. That's why.

Nikki (44:04)
Right.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, that is why.

Kelly (44:17)
Do better, be better.

Nikki (44:19)
It's not hard.

Kelly (44:21)
Yah!

Nikki (44:22)
Women are accepting the bare minimum these days.

Kelly (44:25)
Oh my God, the amount of hair on the sink when he shaves all the time. I still love him. Yeah. Yes. But anyways, yeah, no. Any other parting thoughts about, oh, this is not the book. Any other parting thoughts about the art of catching feelings? I do love the cover though, I gotta say.

Nikki (44:34)
Yeah. That's good, because he's your husband.

Kelly (44:55)
It's giving me Never Been Kissed? Have you seen that?

Nikki (44:58)
Is that have - is that - does that have Drew Barrymore in it? No, I haven't seen it.

Kelly (45:03)
Yes. And okay, I loved it off topic, but not. I loved it when I was growing up. I recently rewatched it and I was like, this is kind of creepy, but I also love him. So.

Nikki (45:20)
Isn't she like undercover out of high school and then she starts to date a teacher?

Kelly (45:25)
No, no, no. She's undercover. She starts to date someone who's her age, like 17. Nothing happens though. And she has a crush on the teacher and he clearly has a crush on her and is like flirting with her. So then at the end of it, he's like, so what? Now I'm supposed to like feel good that these feelings I'm having, they're okay. And I'm like, oh my God, you know, like it's a little, little icky.

Nikki (45:33)
Okay.

Kelly (45:53)
but I loved the movie growing up. It's like so cute and is it?

What's his name? I forget his name now. It's the guy in Monster in Law. Super cute. Yes. Yes. And he's the English teacher. Like be still my beating heart. Oh my God. Yeah. So no, because why would they be? Sorry.

Nikki (46:05)
Oh yeah, mm -hmm, I can picture him. I don't know what his name is either.

Of course. They're never a math teacher.

Ew.

No one wants to rail their math teacher because they're just being mean to you all the time.

Kelly (46:26)
Yes! So, you know, I don't know, I'm just saying it was really cute, but they get together on a baseball pitch at the end of the movie. So this cover is giving me Never Been Kissed, but yeah.

Nikki (46:35)
Uhhhh

I like that it's, uh, like comic book -y. That's fun. Dots. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. That's it.

Kelly (46:44)
Yeah, like with the little, um, not pixels, but you know, the dots. Yeah. Like pop art kind of, I guess. But yeah.

And on that note, we really liked the cover. Well, I liked some of the banter, the cover.

Nikki (47:07)
Oh yeah, I liked that too.

Kelly (47:08)
That's, yeah.

Just to recap, we liked a little bit of it. I gave it a three, Nikki gave it a two because she finished the book.

Nikki (47:22)
It was not a home run, shall we say.

Kelly (47:25)
No. Wah, wah, wah.

Nikki (47:31)
Yeah.

Kelly (47:31)
So with that, I think that's about all we have the energy for with this book. But thank you so much for the advanced reader copy because even though it wasn't a five out of five, I did have fun with most of it, some of it. So, but yeah, thank you so much.

Nikki (47:46)
Yeah, and we really, really appreciate that publishers take the time to reach out to us.

Kelly (47:53)
But but yeah, yeah, no, they can't all be five stars, right? So but I even though I didn't enjoy this book as much as I wanted to, I do enjoy her writing style for the most part. So I would read her again and I would recommend her to people who want to give her a go. So, you know, it's a win for me in that sense anyway. So hey.

Thank you so much for listening to us or for those of you who are watching us in our new format. How wild is this? If you want to stay up to date with our bookish antics when we're not on the air, you can follow us on our Instagram at BYO Book Podcast or our TikTok at Bring Your Own Book Podcast.

And remember, not every book has to be a home run. So until next time, see ya!

Nikki (48:37)
See ya!